Recommend me a book!

[RibenaBerry]

Right, reading these boards recently has given me a bit of a kick up the arse on my feminist principles. I've done a bit of 'light' reading in the area (think The Beauty Myth as a teenager) but think I need something a bit more serious without being so weighty I never pick it up. I'd rather have something published in, say, the last 15 years than any of the 'classics'.

Any ideas?

Enough of the hyperbole please Sakura.

Enough of the racism and sexism then please

Sexism: women are nothing more than what men define them to be: penis-less non-people

Racism: a black person is nothing more than a defective Caucasian, which can be rectified if one of them happens to be born albino

Oh, noticed my post has been deleted.
Censorship is very dangerous. It's the crux of dictatorial regimes.
When it is used as a means of stopping women from defining themselves, and their truth, it effectively becomes a gag. Women have been gagged enough by men.
Although the best way of convincing people that trans-gender men are women is by gagging women, so I can understand the urge behind the need to silence feminists.

wow that is some very selective deleting MNHQ....and, actually, I'm not sure how I feel about it.....need to have a think. I think, along with sakura, it actually borders on censorship.

I can't blame MNHQ. Unfortunately they can't risk being shut down by a libel. The possibility of a libel suit has already been threatened on this thread.

It is censorship, though, and I think after the incident with that baby guru who tried to sue MN because she was worried about her book sales (forgot her name) MN tried to attempt to try to change the libel laws.

The sad fact is, we know a woman would never have the sense of entitlement of taking someone to task for sexism on a website...and yet the possibility of a miniscule amount of feminists being shut up by a libel suit is very real.

I mean the chance of a woman being able to get a prominent and powerful website shut down for sexist comments is probably zero.

I missed the threat of a libel suit...but I really didn't read your comments in that light - it was a debate sparked by Greer and a valid one at that. Gosh this section has just gone a bit bonkers recently!

(you're up early BTW)

I hope the rest of the comments stay because they scupper their own arguments through their ignorance of the basic principles of sex and gender.

haha, I haven't seen 5am since I was about 17.
I live abroad

well, yes, that is what is so weird about the deleting - you can actually still read the argument IYSWIM. I suppose (naively probably), I thought women are less likely to threaten other women with censorship and more likely to use argument. Does that make sense?

Yes, unless they're acting as a "proxy" for someone else's words. "Hate speak" FFS. As if racism and sexism is not hate speak and deeply offensive.

I think it's just that I was the first person to defend Greer and that's why that particular post was attacked. Another poster said s/he'd reported it and one of Dittany's (also deleted) so MN thought they'd better get rid of it just in case.

I am really angry that Mumsnet has deleted Sakura's and Dittany'[s posts - not sure what they said now, but there was no personal insult and no hate speak and I don't think there was any libel, no one was personal.

We need to take this up with MN, we can't allow men to dictate to us what we are allowed to say and how women and womanhood
is defined.

FGS MN WTF are you thinking of? What was wrong with Dittany's and Sakura's posts?

Must go to work now, back later

And I'm beyond furious that my post (along with dittany's and Sakura's) was deleted, there was no hate speech there, so no offense under discrimination laws, and no comments directed at any individual so no libel.

Mumsnet HQ; I am shocked at you bowing down to a self righteous bully, I thought better of you. If you could offer me a cogent reason for your decision I'd be very grateful.

WTF - I am appalled by this.
We have to be allowed to discuss what it means to be a woman. Questioning the version that the patriarchal legal and political establishment has forced on us is not hate speech.

am that any posts were deleted.

is it possible to get an answer about deletions from MNHQ? do you need to email them direct or something?

MNHQ are generally very helpful and open about why they have deleted posts IME.

I would like to hear their justification too in this instance....this sits very uncomfortably with me.

is that actually the case then - that it's libellous to describe a transexual as being their former sex?

I don't think Julia Serano is a woman either. I'm saying it again to see if I get deleted. I don't mind using the pronoun 'she' of my transgender/identifying-as-a-gender-other-than- that-which-was-assigned-to-them-at-birth friends but hand on heart I don't think they are women. I am quite happy for people to blur and problematise gender boundaries but I have a real problem with the idea that someone can say that they have defined being a woman once and for all and the rest of us have to accept that.

Julia Serrano is clearly a man.

Am I going to be deleted for that?

So has anyone e-mailed MN? Shall I start a thread in site stuff to ask why they deleted stuff?