Recommend me a book!

[RibenaBerry]

Right, reading these boards recently has given me a bit of a kick up the arse on my feminist principles. I've done a bit of 'light' reading in the area (think The Beauty Myth as a teenager) but think I need something a bit more serious without being so weighty I never pick it up. I'd rather have something published in, say, the last 15 years than any of the 'classics'.

Any ideas?

Natachak, if the term 'woman' has no definition or meaning, how can anybody know if they are a woman or not?

Sorry milly but i have to disagree. When i have my constructed vagina, and even when i have a gender recognition certification and my birth certificate is changed to show me as female. I still won't be defined by my genitals.

Sally66;

what a wonderful post. You must be a fantastic mum!

HerBeatitude, They could i suppose and i'd let them. thing is it costs an arm and a leg !

I said female reproductive organs. I did not say genitals.

I am not defined by being female. It is only one aspect of who I am.

MillyR;

I said the term "woman" (or "man" for that matter) did not have a precise enough definition to satisfy a court. I did not suggest at all that it had no meaning.

@ sally It's only a condition if you let it be one. I'm not up-tight about, i don't demand that anyone see me in a certain way or anything.

I don't hide who i am and i answer questions that might seem intrusive because i think sharing information leads to understanding

At the time i pushed out it was a condition, now it's so far in my past that it doesn't register. In some ways i feel fortunate that i get to see life from both sides of the gender divide.

I'm a glass half full person, annoyingly i try to see the silver lining in the cloud

No I'm talknig about at birth SC. I'm surprised that they didn't have that technology available then/ didn't think it was important enough to bother using it.

So if you are a CIS gnedered woman and your unable to reproduce does that make you less of a woman.

Sorry MillyR it's an old point and one that's been made a load of times before historically but it came to mind

I didn't ask for a legal definition. I asked you to define what a woman is, and the answers I have had so far are:

1. It can't be legally defined.

1. It can't be defined by biology because it isn't a medical condition.

1. It is a series of emotional traits like 'strength.'

Can I ask the question another way. If trans women want the term 'women' for themselves, would they object if the group of people formerly known as 'women' choose another name for themselves? Could the former women be known as 'parlilats.' Would you object to us having a new group name?

AH sorry Herb, do you mind the name shortening ?

in 1973 they hardly had colour tellys let alone the ability to do those tests

Natacha
Thank you, i try my best for my child. It has taken many years and many tears but we are getting there.

MillyR
I must ask. If your child came to you, with the biggest problem of their life. Self harming, drinking, running away and having suicial feelings. Would you say, it's not a medical condition, you'll be ok.

Hell no you wouldn't if you were any sort of a mum.You would go to the medics.

Why the hell do you think my child has 3 psychiatric drs and is under specialist treatment for children with GID.

MillyR;

As far as I'm concerned you can call yourself whatever you like, how would you define women?

Sally66 - I am glad your daughter was born to you too! It makes me so sad that all children with GID don't have wonderful parents.

OH Milly, see i think we agree on the need for a third sex

I have no problem living in the third as long as i'm not viewed legally, physically, spiritually, emotionally or mentally as male.

Personally i feel that those trans men who don't undergo phalloplasty should be living in the third and not recognised as male.

Selaciouscrumb, have you actually read the thread?

I said, many times, that what defines women as women is that they have female reproductive organs and as a consequence of that they have to make a range of choices connected to that, which have an impact on their lives.

Many of those choices are not about having children, but about choosing not to become pregnant , through access to contraception, abortion and the right to say no to being impregnated. It can also be about not being able to become pregnant and seeking treatment or not seeking treatment for that. So it is not just about people who do have children.

These issues are really central to feminism and unique to women.

SelaciousCrumb
What a wonderful way to look at life you have. My hat is off to you.

SelaciousCrumb, I think in many ways we are in agreement. I certainly do not want people to have belong to a gender binary, and as some people are not born male or female, it makes obvious sense for a third sex to exist and to be supported and respected by society.

MillyR;

I would suggest that a third "gender" would be more appropriate, and why not a fourth, fifth or sixth?

why oh why do we have to define what is a woman?

surely we are human being with feelings, and that is what matters!!!!!!!!!!

thanks sally

Sally66, in case you hadn't noticed, this is a feminism thread. And feminists do tend to think that being a woman matters. If you don't think that women have particular issues, why are you on a feminism thread?

"If you don't think that women have particular issues, why are you on a feminism thread?"

Perhaps because Sally66 was accused of abusing her daughter? Just a thought MillyR...

I am here to so that the view of parents of children who have GID are heard. After being told about this thread.

Our children are not freaks and we parents are NOT abusers.

Being a woman is a state of mind

never being one to go to bed on a downer, i thought i'd say thankyou for the chit chat and the mental stimulation and the chance to have a bit of input.

Sometimes things come out wrong with me and the lack of body language when chatting over the interweb can make things difficult at times.

Milly i'd love to talk with you more, I think i could learn a thing or three. It's been fun . I've got a hectic few days so i'll check back on Sunday or something.

Night everyone