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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Baroness Stern and false allegations

104 replies

LondonSun · 22/06/2010 21:48

We were (all) outraged when Cameron used Stern's report to infer that there are lots of false allegations of rape a couple of weeks ago. (defending proposal granting rape defendants anonymity)

I questioned her about it at the Rights of Women conference today and she said SHE DOES NOT THINK THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF FALSE ALLEGS, PROBABLY ONLY A HANDFUL EACH YEAR.

She said she though that research into false allegs would prove how few there are, not how many there are.

So that's something.

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MeganMog · 30/06/2010 10:44

Sorry forgot to do the links properly - here it is again:

I read this thread yesterday, and it has really made me think. Co-incidentally on the radio this morning was the mention of a trial in Guildford today, of a woman accused of making a false rape claim - news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/surrey/10333375.stm

Original report here - www.surrey.police.uk/media/news_item.asp?area=12&itemID=12783

Interestingly there was a previous incident at the same location last year, but appears to involve a different person - www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2062894hunt_for_man_who_tried_to_rape_woman_infarnham and someone has been arrested and bailed, and due to face trial in July - www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2070309arrest_made_over_farnhamrape

Prolesworth · 30/06/2010 11:16

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MeganMog · 30/06/2010 11:24

Yes except for the descriptions of the attacker - bald in the first one, and dark hair in the second.

sethstarkaddersmum · 30/06/2010 12:27

do you think if you were raped, and then you made a mistake identifying the suspect, and the guy you had identified turned out to have had a strong alibi and couldn't possibly have done it, you would be at risk of being done for a false accusation?

I was reading Andrea Dworkin's account of her rape the other day and was struck by the fact that she was keen to avoid making a false accusation so she didn't report it or tell anyone about the people she thought might have done it. Then in one of the comments at the end of the article someone says she is clearly lying because she didn't report the people she suspected to the police. Talk about no-win bloody situation.

LondonSun · 17/07/2010 09:48

Bit delayed (as ever, I'm sorry) but there you go..

Thanks for mention of stats by ilovemydog- I have made a FOI request but they have refused to provide me with the information as they say it is to big a task Am looking into other ways we can ask it but one paper has reported that 431 women were convicted of perverting the cause of justice in 2008. I wonder how many were for false allegations...

Frikonastik, this comment: "as long as everyone is arguing about statistics, it is implicit that until we can prove as a nation that women generally arent lying bitches, then we can operate from the position that they are" made my day when I read it. Spot on, nice one

There seem to be loads of false allegation cases recently:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1292055/Student-jailed-rape-claim-invented-extension-course-work.ht ml#ixzz0snVcTrzL
www.bedfordshire.police.uk/onlinenews/2010/july/court_reports/140710_false_claims.html
www.bbc.co.uk/news/10559111
www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/False-rape-allegations-cost-163-13-000Teenager-appeals-sentence-accusing- youths/article-2372856-detail/article.html
www.hounslowchronicle.co.uk/west-london-news/local-hounslow-news/2010/06/22/woman-jailed-for-making- false-rape-claim-109642-26703420/

At the beginning of the post, I mentioned I had spoken to the mother of a daughter who was convicted of PCOJ with a false allegation. Her daughter was sentenced to three years on Thursday- thats the longest sentence I've heard of yet.

Here's the Dail Mail article:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294947/Leyla-Ibrahim-jailed-crying-rape-despite-7-months-pregnant. html?ito=feeds-newsxml

And here's an interview with her mum:
www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/news/family-vow-to-clear-name-of-carlisle-woman-who-faked-sex-attack-1.7346 50?referrerPath=news/people

I am so glad she was given the opportunity to talk about what happened from their perspective. Horrendous.

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sparky159 · 17/07/2010 11:23

horrible!
and medical evidence to support the attack!
after looking at the links ive noticed that-
the women who have pleaded guilty to false allegassions-have got less sentences!!
she obviously didnt plead guilty-so got more!
so really-if you get attacked but is not believed-you get more for standing youre ground!
[this sort of case where someone fabricates a allagation.........and continues with that allagation is rare...........]

could this be because she wasnt lying!!

LondonSun · 17/07/2010 11:53

Exactly- some women have been pressurised into confessing they made it up under the promise that they won't be charged or will get less time in prison if they admit their "crime".

Women like Gail Sherwood and Leyla Ibrahim maintained their innocence by pleading not guilty and were punished by 2-3 years in prison. If they had pleaded guilty they would not have got such harsh sentences

Leyla Ibrahim is 7 months pregnant- it beggars belief

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dittany · 17/07/2010 12:31

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jenny60 · 17/07/2010 13:02

Londonsun: I came late to this too but wanted to say how much I admire the work you're doing. It's inspiring and incredingly informative too. The whole situation is absolutely shocking; the more I read, the more I despair.

It's not the same thing at all, but I was part of a horrendously sexist selection panel a few weeks ago (one female candidate being called a 'ball breaker' in informal discussion) and I felt utterly and shockingly powerless. I can't even imagine what this is like for women in much, much more serious and devastating situations like your own. It seems that actually being raped isn't enough, women have to be punished for daring to complain about it

Prolesworth · 17/07/2010 13:11

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dittany · 17/07/2010 13:14

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dittany · 17/07/2010 13:15

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Prolesworth · 17/07/2010 14:08

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LondonSun · 18/07/2010 13:54

If you'd like to be in touch with Leyla or her family please feel free to send to WAR and we'll pass on (Crossroads Women's Centre, 230a Kentish Town Rd, London, NW5 2AB

On that note- here's Gail Sherwood on being in prison:

"As a mother separated from children, partner and dogs, it's like a living hell. Worrying about what's going on at home, running the home from far away. My partner lost it big time yesterday, he's really struggling. People say let them get on with their lives but I can't. Everything in the home was pivotal around me and they all ask me for advice and guidance on what they should do next. Tell them what to feed the puppies, how to fix the internet . . . I've had my youngest girl sobbing down the phone. All I can do is talk them through it. My partner tells me I mustn't cry because it upsets him.

I am allowed to hug them when they visit, when they first come in, but not after that. My family get sniffed by the drug dog ? we've got 20 dogs at home so of course the drug dogs sniff them! Then we were told we were being watched for drugs for the whole visit. Same happened with two of my friends ? they've both got dogs too."

HMP Drake Hall, 2 June 2010

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ISNT · 18/07/2010 14:11

There have been a lot of these cases in the papers lately.

I think that many women reading the papers would be put off reporting an assualt in case they end up in prison. There aren't ay incentives to report rape even without this threat on top.

One of the comments on the website said the usual ie she should have been given the death penalty.

Sakura · 18/07/2010 14:30

The media is so biased, I think all of it's propaganda. YOu get so used to it, though you end up believing the skewed perspective of the world. I'm still trying to get over the shockingly high murder rate of women at the hands of their spouse. We hear nothing about that and yet lots of reports about women making false allegations of rape

Sakura · 18/07/2010 14:30

The media is so biased, I think all of it's propaganda. YOu get so used to it, though you end up believing the skewed perspective of the world. I'm still trying to get over the shockingly high murder rate of women at the hands of their spouse. We hear nothing about that and yet lots of reports about women making false allegations of rape

HerBeatitude · 18/07/2010 14:31

ISNT there is no way I'd report a rape now. It's just too big a risk.

Who was it who said on another thread that we need a black panthers for women? It's horrific to think how unprotected we are by the law.

Sakura · 18/07/2010 14:36

LondonSun, that's so sad from Gail Sherwood. A mother's nightmare

Dave80 · 11/01/2011 21:52

Just thought I should give a male perspective on the topic..

It is my opinion false accusations are increasing and the accusers are in perfect mental health but know they will get off scot-free. In court women are always believed over men, if it wasn't for CCTV there would be even more innocent men in prison.

I find it disgusting some of you don't want anonymity for those accused. That you think evidence isn't needed and the accused should be guilty until proven innocent.

I really do think false accusations make it harder for genuine victims to come forward, but unless we make an example of the liars then many more will lie about rape and take unfair advantage of the special protection women now have.

Do you realize what happens to a man falsely accused of rape? He often loses his job, he gets abuse shouted at him in the street, his neighbours start a hate campaign against him forcing him to move home, his friends abandon him.. and if he is in prison sex offenders are among the most risk of harm. But I've never once heard a feminist see this as a problem.

Any guesses why most men don't support your little feminist charades??

Dave80 · 11/01/2011 21:54

oh btw, women kill their husbands as well. And before you give me the "men are stronger" free card, women can (and do) easily compensate for lack of physical strength by use of a weapon and striking from behind/while her husband sleeps/element of surprise.

A true fact feminists like to sweep under the carpet.

HerBeatitude · 11/01/2011 21:56

"It is my opinion false accusations are increasing and the accusers are in perfect mental health but know they will get off scot-free. In court women are always believed over men, if it wasn't for CCTV there would be even more innocent men in prison"

Can you offer any hard evidence for this absurd assertion, or are we all supposed to revere your opinion as quite enough evidence?

sethstarkaddersmum · 11/01/2011 21:56

have a biscuit, Dave Biscuit

sethstarkaddersmum · 11/01/2011 21:57

he is a man, HB, and remember a man's opinion is worth twice as much as a woman's peer-reviewed published research.

sethstarkaddersmum · 11/01/2011 21:58

come to think of it he may not be a man - this is the internet after all. He may be an otter. Or a wallaby.

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