Erasure of Women from Public/Cultural life:

[blackcurrants]

I thought this column in the guardian, "I'm tired of being the token woman" was a high quality rant, and thought you might enjoy a read, if you haven't seen it.

In my current (and previous) jobs, what made a difference in career progression was the quality and extent to which your sponsors could back you. If you had an influential backer, you would get on.

Which is where diversity training comes in IMO. People higher up the career ladder are much more ready to see good qualities in people like themselves. It's only when people can genuinely appreciate good qualities in someone different (either different through race, class, gender etc) that we'll start breaking through the glass ceiling.

Clients, no, never. No one (as far as I'm aware) would ever think they would get away with that.

I know one man who got the sack for emailing pornograph material to a friend at a client. The client's IT team picked it up, client complained and said they expected him to be appropriately disciplined. Don't remember anyone having any particular sympathy for him.

Also, ten years ago, saw a notice up on the wall at a competitor making it clear that this was inappropriate and that this was not a business expense and should not be expensed. Wonder bad it must have been for HR to put that one up.

Years ago, our HR/compliance training videos would have shown it as an example of inappropriate behaviour too but I haven't seen any training material showing similar scenarios lately.

If you're taking about after work, few drinks at the pub and then the lads go on, yes, that probably does happen still. But it's never as blantant as it used to be, so I'm not sure how much.

I'm saying that there definitely has been a history of it, but taking clients to lapdancing clubs now would be accepted as inappropriate.

As for without clients, the last time I was definitely aware that male colleagues frequented such places together was about five years ago. If my current collegues do so I have seen no evidence of it.

YOu seem to have a huge thing against sex and the sex industry though dittany. Not all feminists share that view. And by the way I agree with hs, there are lots of women in the City and lap dancing would be rare. I have been to an evening event at a make up place and I'm afraid I found it very dull and very sexist - the assumption that women want that kind of entertainment. But no one would dispute there is still work to be done to get women to where they ought to be. Do also be aware that perhaps class as much as sex is an issue too in some areas too - the arts if full of the middle class; Olympic sportspeople usually went to fee paying schools; never mind race as well. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to work at getting more women in senior positions though.

In a similar vein to the make up event you had to go to, a friend of mine has been invited to a spa day recently. She is dreading it.

Agree that class is an issue. We were talking at work about a (male) colleague who is unlikely to get his promotion because he isn't the right social class.

But is is easier for a working class man to assimilate into the "right" class at work, than it is for a woman to become a man.

Zombie thread.