How is it possible to be a feminist and support the sex industry?

[Molesworth]

I've just been reading this article from the guardian. Young girls are being sold to brothel keepers and made to take steroids so that they look older than they really are.

All my instincts say that the sex industry is just plain wrong. I know some feminists think it's OK (although obviously they wouldn't support practices like those described in the article). Are there any sex industry supporting feminists here? What's the rationale?

No, but I have met several girls who needed to be talked out of it before they did something they may later regret. That's the biggest problem, that young girls assume they can do this, when in fact not everyone can.

most prostitues tend to keep themselves to themselves ...mind you with some of the comments on here i dont blame them !

oh and before i get asked if i am one myself ..I am not but I do come into contact with some whilst doing my job

I had a grand old time actually.
I look back now and I know that I was very naive and that I was also incredibly lucky, but there it is, I have no regrets.

"Did you never have any other ambitions Mandamumu?"

Yes, I fulfilled most of them and my time is no over yet, so I intend to achieve much more before I retire, however I'm not here to discuss my day job. Just the sex industry.

"most prostitues tend to keep themselves to themselves ...mind you with some of the comments on here i dont blame them !"

It is very difficult to stick one's head over the parapet, only a few girls ever dare to do it, so unfortunately those few are constantly under attack.

yes ..I can see quite clearly why most dont tend to
I see quite a few doing my job and most are quite normal well rounded girls, I mean you wouldnt know they were sex workers if you saw them in the street, non have whore tattoed on their forheads,
lets face it they make money from men and I make money from them ...does that make me a pimp?..lol mind you not many pimps can spray tan and manicure like I can

Mandamumu, I am amazed that with all your experience in the industry you haven't met any women who were pimped, tricked or enticed into it. I knew a prostitute once and I asked her how she got into it. She said that her boyfriend took her to a party and one of her female friends went into a room to have sex with a man at the party, for which she was paid. The boyfriend and her female friend then urged her to do the same with another man, telling her she would get paid. In the atmosphere of the party and the pressure, she did it and that was how she started in the industry. After that contacts in the industry got her a place working out of flat, so she wasn't a streetwalker.

When I'm introduced to other working girls, I don't ask them how they got into this line of work. Maybe that's the sort of thing that only non sex workers ask. I don't know. Do you know how long everyone in your line of work has been doing it and how they got into it?

I didn't say that I was under constant attack, I was talking about the girls who work with the IUSW and other similar organisations

Mandamumu, are you running an agency? Is that how you are introduced to working girls?

is part of your job to vet the women to see if they are suitable and to avoid the biggest problem?

"but I have met several girls who needed to be talked out of it before they did something they may later regret. That's the biggest problem, that young girls assume they can do this, when in fact not everyone can."

Look, no one who is a regular MNer and a sex worker is going to say it on MN for fear of someone tracking down her identity and shopping her to Social Services. So don't read too much into the fact that any posters who say on this thread that they are currently working in the sex industry are new posters.
ANd while I have great sympathy for those who have been forced into allowing people to have sex with them for money, their experiences, however awful, are not 'more' valid than anyone else's different experiences.
And it honestly seems to me that the best way to improve the situation is to understand the difference between being a trafficked victim, or an abuse victim ie being controlled by another person, unable to escape, subject to abuse and violence - and a person who chooses a line of work that wouldn't appeal to or suit everyone is that the person doing it of her (or his) own free will is selling her/his time and physical/mental effort, and can walk away when the agreed time is up, the abuse victim, whether s/he is being subjected to sex or doing something like cocklepicking at the risk of her/his life, cannot walk away, is in terror of the traffickers etc.

No, I don't run an agency.

Sometimes when girls are researching the business and considering becoming an escort, they find the website of a woman who seems approachable and they contact us to ask questions.

I point them in the direction of information which will help them decide, but in some cases they only get that after I've told them straight that I don't think they should do it.
Anyone who has an image of Richard Gere in their head should think again for a start.

Really pleased that not everyone is so simple minded and hard wired into all women are victims all men are perpetrators? mentality and are actually trying to have a dialogue so I took a brief moment to escape my pimp?s clutches and quick rest from servicing Litany?s ?rapist? hubby to again add my Happy Hooker lies.

I have not magically appeared from my cage in my boudoir to sing the praises of prostitution but read a number of threads on this board for a few months. I enjoyed many of them and chuckled along with the Penguin thread and other classics. Quite a few members on here also post on an escort only forum where we actually discuss Mumsnet threads. This was initially filling us with high hopes of a balanced and intelligent discussion without the usual hysterical examples of abused sex slaves. Sadly the most vociferous voices are those who seem to have the same views their puritan forbearers might have had centuries ago just before organising a little pitchfork mob off to burn the wicked witch of Notting Hill. The ?sisters? are fine with whimpering victims as long as the victims/prostitutes renounce harloting as evil and do penance. If we are defiant and say we quite like the majority of our jobs ? the insults and venom starts flowing.

But to some good and serious points ? sadly exploitation and violence do happen in this industry mirrored in domestic situations across the country. Someone pointed out that dogma and intolerance usually coincided with countries with among the worst human rights records and inequality of women. The original article is distressing and shocking but worse still is that the overall situation of women in Bangladesh is dire with basic equal rights being far from established.

Manda and a few other ladies who post on here are my colleagues and friends. We have as much in common with street workers and trafficked victims as most women. Prostitution like many other industries has totally different facets. Most people ignore the fact that if you take the drama out of sex work ? exploitation and coercion sadly exists in other professions too. Every time you eat somewhere or in fact consume any number of consumer goods you will unwittingly participate and contribute to slave labour and exploitation. Realising that is one thing ? running around like some headless Bindel drone and labelling all for example cleaners as exploited slaves is as nonsensical as applying this to our line of work is insulting and unhelpful to genuine victims. What is more important is not to try and drive a legal activity underground thus actually making it harder for women to tackle abusers. Closing down parlours and focusing on places that offer a safe working alternative for more than one sex worker at a time actually forces those not organised to go it alone or without the capital to set up a website and working premises on the street.

Prostitution is not a job that suits everyone. Paradoxically those in the most economic trouble are often the least suited to this work. Desperation makes people far too vulnerable to anyone trying to manipulate or overstep boundaries. When women (of all ages) email me asking me to help them get set up as escorts I suggest that they read info on a dedicated website but also try all manner of debt resolution and citizen advice places. I do not see it my responsibility or job to help them into prostitution just because I am in the trade. I do however support a mentor scheme. If you really want to tackle the evils of prostitution than you should focus on housing and general economical issues such as affordable childcare and flexible jobs that allows women to work and raise kids. And the current direction the education system takes is another contributing factor with astronomical fees and little support for students. Several of my colleagues are funding post graduate courses. My only hope is that later they will be in positions to influence and change society to be fairer on women especially.

As for Angel?s story ? btw we really do not call our clients Johns! It seems poignant that this is seems to be a non UK story given the terminology. Sex workers are far more vulnerable when working somewhere where prostitution is illegal like the States. A vulnerable girl is sadly open to manipulation and abuse both in a paid and unpaid encounter. Please stop making so many ignorant assumptions about our working conditions so. Ladies/escorts (or whores if you like!) have quite a clear menu of services they are happy to provide which varies from person to person. In the great majority of cases we dictate what happens in an encounter.

tl;dr indeed

I read this part:

"Really pleased that not everyone is so simple minded and hard wired into all women are victims all men are perpetrators? mentality and are actually trying to have a dialogue so I took a brief moment to escape my pimp?s clutches and quick rest from servicing Litany?s ?rapist? hubby to again add my Happy Hooker lies. "

Then gave up. Too long, too aggressive, life too short etc etc.

what is tl;dr

"Too long; didn't read"

(I didn't know either )

tl; dr

Now that's an admission!

So glad I'm not the only one.

You know what, dittany and molesworth? it may be tl;dr to you but I'm interested in what both MissHM and Manda have to say, especially when they have room to say it in a substantive fashion without being accused of being a john or a pimp.

I notice that some of the Angel quotes are also pretty long.

< goes back to re-read bits >

I read it

it was bollocks

there, saved you all a very boring job

don't say I never do you lot any favours...

I read it

it was bollocks

there, saved you all a very boring job

don't say I never do you lot any favours...