Thread in Beauty and Style..

[lollyhop2girls]

About Sam Cameron has made me think that a lot of women conform to whats expected of them apperance wise because of the way some women treat other women... Does the problem always lie with men's expectations of us? Seems if you look at this thread that it may be the women who set the high standards and put what another woman looks like ahead of what she has to say or what she is capable of..?

Interested to hear what you guys think abot the issue of how we present ourselves..

I think it's true that women often police each other, it's a mark of a truly successful oppression IMO. Imagine getting the underlings to keep each other in order so you can just put your feet up and enjoy the superiority.

Oh, thank you for bumping this thread, Harpy.

Lolly, here's a link to I Blame The Patriarchy - today's and yesterday's posts are both about beauty. The Dove one made me laugh out loud

Have you read Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth? It's a fantastic book.

I didn't take it that way, TheShreikingHarpy... I think elephants means that the culture of competing for a man (and that being the ultimate prize) enables women to monitor and criticise each other's behaviour/style/looks without even questioning why they are doing it.

The instrument of oppression is not individual men, but a patriarchal society.

The fact remains that women are far more image obsessed than men - you only need to look at women's magazines with strip lines along the lines of 'Look! Myleen has cellulite!' to see that. It's a moot point.

We live in a culture where women are encouraged to aim for a flawless appearance (I don't think men are encouraged to do this - from early myth imperfect men - in every sense - have been romantised). The impossible concept of perfection means that we always fail, and often fall to taking relief in the failings of others as some sort of reassurance that we're not the only ones getting it wrong. Thank God! Jennifer Aniston isn't perfect either!

romanticised

I blame the patriarchy - brilliant. Well, most of it. I just dont understand this;

*It?s okay to have a family? she insisted. ?It?s okay to be pretty.?

No, it isn?t, my dear old feminist panelist. It isn?t okay to be pretty. Not if smashing patriarchy is on your to-do list. Pretty is merely a semantic variant of feminine, which is itself a code word meaning ?subjugated, degraded, and controllable.?*

Is the problem with the word 'pretty'? As yes I agree with the blogger that it may as well read 'sexy or fuckable' I hate that women use their femininity, sex appeal, 'prettiness' to gain approval or status.

Or is it with actually being what most people would consider 'conventionally' pretty. Surely its not your fault if you're 'pretty'? I'd be cross if I turned up at a feminism Group that she was at and she told me to piss off for being 'pretty'

Confused...? ?

Also, another thought has occured to me. Men as a whole seem to have really gotten in to cosmetics in recent years.. If their allowed to preen themselves without judgement and we are not, that is hardly equal..

frets and bites finger nails

Ps; hold on to your seat.... I saw a magazine article over a women's shoulder today which was about that page 3 girl that was in Celebrity Big Brother this year.. it read 'A Designer Vagina will save my relationship'

"I'd be cross if I turned up at a feminism Group that she was at and she told me to piss off for being 'pretty'"

Yes, I'd be cross too (not that it would happen to me anyway ), but that's not what IBTP is getting at at all.

Re: the designer vaginas thing, indeed.

Check this out: My New Pink Button Genital Cosmetic Colourant

Molesworth, Can you explain what she was getting at? I just didnt understand and I'd like to as I loved her other posts..!

I don't think I am mentally ready for what might lie on the other side of that link... Am I going to scream and be very ?

Oh, I clicked on the link.

I am upset on sooooo many levels. Mostly by the fact that it seems a women invented this - Or is that just marketing I wonder?

She's talking about 'prettiness' not in terms of what you naturally look like (which may or may not conform to culturally defined notions of 'pretty') but in terms of choosing to conform to those norms of 'prettiness'. She goes on to say "the practice of beauty is an expression of internalized oppression". Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth is v good on explaining this (whereas I'm not!)

Better than me Molesworth! Will order The Beauty Myth

(and then agonise over how I ordered the book club book two days ago which means Amazon will send then separately thus implicating me in a carbon footprint crime)

P.s just popped on to the thread about the woman and her partner wanting to go to a lapdancing club... Your posts are so true. What is that thread all about? It makes me feel tired.

Sorry for posting loads of random links, but I think this is relevant to this thread: it's the Boots TV ad that ran last year (? might've been longer ago). I think it says a lot about 'beauty surveillance'. If you can't be arsed to watch it, it's the one set on a crowded beach when everyone stops what they're doing to watch a woman reveal her bikini-clad body ("the most dreaded moment of the year").

Boots Moment of Truth advert

Yes and so right they are; I spend all year dreading that moment. There is really nothing else of significance that I dread all year long, Such is my vacuous female mind

What about Special K?! like we're stupid enough to beleive that they had our happiness in mind when they so helpfully came up with the genious 'love your jeans' campaign.

What, you mean if I buy more of your product I can unlock my inner happiness and be skinny..?! Thank you thank you thank you!

Just followed the link to the "My New Pink Button" nonsense - did you read the product reviews? Sarcastic and irreverent to a one. Fantastic! (Well, apart from the product itself being a really stupid misogynist idea that is.)

I like the IBTP link - great stuff.

I totally agree theres nothing shallower that a spiteful woman

What me?
I'm simply replying to the post.

I was simply replying to the 'because of the way women treat other women'

Okay I may have misread a little bit, I aplogise people.