Have men always gang-raped unconscious married women?

[Waheymum]

Since the Gisele Pelicot trial, I've noticed multiple similar cases in the news. Has this always happened and I've just never known about it? Also, I don't understand why anyone would enjoy sex with an unconscious person, surely it's the same as using a blow-up doll? Is it a paraphilia, does it have a name?

I suppose it’s like necrophilia ?

The internet has made it a hell of a lot easier to invite other men over to join in. I suspect any man who had access to sleeping meds or strong painkillers would have been able to do this. In the Manchester case which resumed today the husband has been drugging and raping his wife for about 20 years and sharing the images online. He the. started inviting other men in 2023. The fact he could betray his wife like that continues to shock me as much as his crimes

It was a team of journalists who uncovered the current Stockport trial and possibly Joanne Young in Winchester via hacking a Telegram channel. A media source tells me at least 800 men were sharing images in that channel. All across Europe.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwdr8vxl1nv1o

Drug-assisted rape isn't new - look at the Bill Cosby case. But these cases have to be the tip of a vast iceberg, because the online communities encouraging it are massive. I wish I could conclude otherwise.

All the DV survivors I know have been forced into sex with men other than their partners. Some men are just quieter about it than others.

This is something I could never have imagined. I remember being so shocked by the Gisele Pelicot’s case.
The problem is that nowadays instead of being an isolated sad perv, these people can find communities of like-minded individuals online. It’s appalling.

I remember reading The Women's Room as a teen, and she (fictional) describes being a teen at a party in the 50s, and getting v drunk and led up to a bedroom, practically unconscious, by a group of men. The character was saved by a good samaritan - and on being told what all those men were going to do, asks "all of them?!"
So if it was being written about in the 1970s, I guess it's been a thing for many decades. Made easier/worse(?) by the internet?

The internet has uncovered Pandora's box, for women and children.

I listened to the BBC sounds podcast, Swingers and I think it's all part of the same thing.

It's coercive control and mental/sexual/emotional abuse. It's men getting off on power, fuelled by porn. It's making society sicker and sicker.

How many cases have there been now? Where's the outcry?

Are the husbands charging money for this? I heard of a local case where a father was pimping out his disabled daughter.

WTF

Apparently the porn name for it is "Dead Meat" 😱

I'm going to tempt fate and say at least this isn't one of those posts that isn't plagued with trans claiming men.

I was aware before Pelicot that this happened but I cannot say when or how I knew. I think the fact that it's now being reported more in the news is because it often happens that news picks up on recent news, e.g. when someone is mauled by a bear, you'll then see a few more stories of other deaths.

DPP v Morgan (1975) was a leading case on consent in rape when I did my law degree (although they didn’t bother to drug the victim). So no I think it was always thus - f-ing bastards!

It's always happened.

There was a case in Crathie during WW2 where the victim wasn't fortunate enough to be protected.

ETA The perpetrators were servicemen.

I would guess it has always happened, just as rape has always happened. But the internet's enabled an increase I am sure. Why did we just tolerate it all? Fabswingers and pornhub and a hundred or thousand more. It's like we have collectively shrugged and just said it's fine, it's what men do...it's not nice but.... "Men like porn... what can we do about it". Rather than ever consider that we didn't have to permit this shit in society.

That Swingers podcast has really stayed with me.

Yes.

It does seem so odd that there are multiple cases in the mews all of a sudden. SO depressing.

Gang rape has been a thing, obvs, but I'm not sure this 'dead meat' development has. For one thing, you'd have to have drugs capable of making women 'dead'. Those are a fairly recent development, ie the last few centuries, aren't they? Places like India, with a longer history of opium use, might have been able to use overdosing, but I can't remember ever seeing anything like that mentioned. (For instance, in old herbals perhaps.)

Unless somebody who knows the history can tell us, I'd guess the frequency of this horrible new wrinkle is something we can thank porn for.

Yes, it probably has always happened - the men that want to do this just need to find their like-minded gang. Be it at a party in the 50s/60s, servicemen taking advantage of their power or marauding gangs in the middle ages.
I think the reason the husbands doing it to their wives has hit the news all of a sudden is because Gisele Pelicot blew the lid off it - refused anonymity and stated the shame is not hers. Raised awareness and gave other women the courage to recognise what was happening to them and come forward.

It's really not that new when you consider the number of times that women who have been rendered helpless by alcohol have been raped.

That was what happened in the Crathie case - the young woman was unconscious. So far as I'm aware, no one was ever brought to justice.

Mdm pelicot is amazing. I’m so grateful for her bravery

I knew of cases in the 1990s where men were drugging their underage sons and daughters and inviting men from the local pub to abuse them.

it’s not new - before the latest date rape drugs there were barbiturates and other sedative drugs, probably mixed with alcohol. I think the Pelicot case has made people report this more.

Savile was a regular visitor to morgues. I guess anyone who has a passion to work in a morgue might be viewed with suspicion…

I agree - alcohol has been around for a very long time. In the Cornell case the woman was blamed for drinking vodka.

I think it’s always been a thing in some form or another. Recent reporting I think has been helped along by the amazing and inspirational courage of Gisele Pelicot. If you haven’t read her book do so. It’s an awful story but she tells it so well. Shes truly inspirational.

Romans were using opium as were ancient Greeks. The knowledge was preserved by monks and nuns so in medieval England there were sleeping drafts or tinctures available. Later you have apothecaries who will be able to sell it to you and then during the 18th century onwards you can buy laudanum which was opium mixed with sherry and was commonly used. Opium didn't become controlled until the 20th century. At the same time pharmaceutical drugs like barbiturates are being introduced and used with a lot less caution than they are now.