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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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cryupmykingdom · Today 09:13

UnaPersson · Today 06:25

Not to derail the thread, but I'm starting to suspect that 'a fat bloke with long hair' describes half of Reddit these days. Even r/aspergirls has many TiMs.

Edited

It was sad when I realised the guy had come all that way . . You know, when someone is living very much 'in their own head', starts blurting, and everyone else is just staring at them. Felt sorry for him at the same time as realising something needed to be done or next time it might be someone more malicious. I acted & lets just say it won't happen again.

UnaPersson · Today 09:18

Good for you, that must have been unnerving as well as sad. As for him, maybe, just maybe it was the shock back into the real world and he went away and had a think about changing the road he was going down. 🤔

The way they go to physically threatening behaviour is very, very not female.

Edit: somehow lost the quote from @cryupmykingdom oops.

callmeLoretta1 · Today 09:20

CoolforKats · Yesterday 09:14

or b) that life experience should be allowed to shape how they view the world and, in this case, assess the risks and disadvantages caused by men trying to access women’s spaces.
Is this an accurate reading of your position?

Yes.

Are there areas where it is permissible for women to share their experience and knowledge, or is it only in relation to ‘trans rights’ that they should keep quiet and put up?

I never suggested they shouldn't. I simply said they as in the Gender critical movement don't get to speak on behalf of all women as if we agree when we clearly don't.

With that commonality and history comes shared experiences that are familiar to more women than not.

Like JKR your'e conveniently making the false equivalence of women's experiences with cis men & trans women. Clearly the women who don't agree with JKR aren't hence they don't clock trans women as a risk.

Like JKR says experience matters but not quite in the way she imagines it does.

Edited

Like JKR your'e conveniently making the false equivalence of women's experiences with cis men & trans women. Clearly the women who don't agree with JKR aren't hence they don't clock trans women as a risk.
Like JKR says experience matters but not quite in the way she imagines it does.

Like most MRAs/TRAs, you are making the false equivalence that a male is the same as a woman because he says he is a woman. Transwomen are male. Men. Male with penis and testicles. They are indistinguishable from all other males. They have male socialisation, male privilege and absolutely nothing remotely whatsoever in common with actual females.

BiologicalRobot · Today 09:30

CoolforKats · 24/10/2026 22:36

Trade unions? Looks like its time for some more insights from our guest commenter:

"What cogent argument would that be, exactly? The one in which I subjected Rowling's essay to critical scrutiny and discovered that much of its supposedly formidable intellectual architecture consists of unsupported assertions, questionable historical interpretations and an extraordinary exercise in self-mythologising? Very well. Let's examine the evidence, shall we? First, the Supreme Court. Rowling celebrates the judgment of April 2025, having personally contributed £70,000 towards the litigation brought by For Women Scotland. The Court determined the meaning of sex, man and woman for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010. An important ruling, certainly, with significant legal consequences. What it did not do was adjudicate upon every philosophical, political and sociological question surrounding sex and gender. Yet Rowling folds this narrow legal determination into an altogether grander narrative about the vindication of her worldview. The distinction between what a judgment establishes and what someone wishes to infer from it is rather important. Second, the trade unions. This is where things become particularly interesting. Rowling cites genuine government statistics showing that trade union membership is disproportionately concentrated among graduates and relatively higher earners. From this, she constructs a theory in which union leaders have abandoned their historic responsibility to the working classes in favour of fashionable ideological commitments. Think about that reasoning for a moment. Apparently, acquiring a university degree or earning a respectable salary now places someone under suspicion of having abandoned their working-class interests. Never mind that nurses, teachers, social workers and numerous other public-sector professionals are required to obtain qualifications to perform jobs that are indispensable to the functioning of society. Never mind that having a degree does not magically exempt someone from exploitative employment practices, insecure housing, rising living costs or the need for collective bargaining. And never mind that working-class people themselves acquire degrees. The statistics establish the educational and financial characteristics of trade union members. They tell us precisely nothing about their attitudes towards transgender people. Rowling has identified a demographic correlation and invited her readers to accept an entirely separate ideological conclusion. That's an argument with a rather conspicuous hole in the middle. There's an additional irony here. Rowling herself attended university during an era when access to higher education was considerably more restricted than it is today. She has described her childhood as lower middle class, and she later experienced genuine poverty as a single mother. Those experiences deserve acknowledgement. But they confer no special authority to decide which contemporary working-class women are authentically representative of their class, or which trade unionists have betrayed it. Third, her excursion into civil rights history. Rowling presents the great social movements of the twentieth century as essentially grassroots struggles conducted by ordinary people against powerful institutions. Fair enough, as far as it goes. She then declares contemporary transgender activism to be the very opposite: an elite intellectual project imposed from above by academics, corporations and institutions. An extraordinary claim, given that organised transgender activism has roots stretching back decades, including people facing poverty, homelessness, police harassment and exclusion from mainstream gay liberation movements. Consider Sylvia Rivera, Marsha P. Johnson and the Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries. Apparently, their place in the history of grassroots civil rights organising has become inconvenient to this particular account. 1/2

Furthermore, almost every successful civil rights movement eventually acquired institutional allies, legal representation, academic advocates and political influence. That is frequently how campaigns achieve lasting legislative change. The existence of institutional support tells us remarkably little about whether the underlying demands are legitimate. Fourth, her treatment of evidence itself. Rowling makes sweeping assertions about transgender criminality and the supposed ideological capture of public institutions. These are serious claims concerning identifiable populations, public safety and the conduct of major organisations. They require serious evidence. Individual criminal cases establish that individuals have committed crimes. They cannot, by themselves, establish the prevalence of criminality across an entire population. Equally, the existence of employment disputes involving gender-critical beliefs establishes that such disputes exist. It does not automatically demonstrate that every institution concerned has been captured by an authoritarian ideology. One might reasonably expect someone presenting herself as a defender of objective reality to understand the distinction. She also reports changes in applications to her own legal fund as evidence that private businesses are increasingly accepting the Supreme Court's judgment while public bodies remain ideologically resistant. Where are the figures? How many applications? Over what period? What alternative explanations have been considered? We're offered a conclusion without the data necessary to evaluate it. And then, naturally, Orwell makes his entrance. The ultimate literary guarantor of objective reality, apparently. There is an irony in invoking Orwell as an unimpeachable defender of intellectual independence when he himself supplied the British Foreign Office with a list of suspected communist sympathisers in 1949. I don't particularly admire informing on one's fellow writers, although that historical episode does not invalidate his literary achievements. Which brings us back to the original problem. Rowling positions herself within a grand historical struggle in which she and those who agree with her are defending civilisation against an entrenched authoritarian orthodoxy. Feminists who disagree are betraying women. Trade unionists have abandoned the working classes. Academics are imposing fashionable theories. Human rights organisations have lost their principles. And the institutions that resist her preferred interpretation of events are evidence of precisely the ideological corruption she claims to be confronting. It is a remarkably convenient arrangement. Every disagreement becomes further evidence that her analysis is correct. Every institution that challenges her becomes another institution requiring correction. And throughout this entire performance, Rowling remains at the moral centre of events, dispensing judgments upon the political, intellectual and ethical qualifications of everybody else. All delivered with the solemn conviction of someone writing the definitive history of an epoch in which she is evidently destined to play the starring role. Now, you may agree with her conclusions. You're perfectly entitled to. There are legitimate disputes about safeguarding, freedom of belief, discrimination and the proper application of equality legislation. Rowling is equally entitled to express her opinions, finance litigation and advocate for women whose concerns she shares. What she is not entitled to is immunity from scrutiny of her reasoning. And what I find particularly amusing about your accusation of luxury beliefs is that you are deploying it in defence of a phenomenally wealthy woman who presumes to lecture trade unionists about authentic working-class solidarity. There is something almost exquisitely comic about a billionaire accusing nurses and teachers of ideological privilege because they've attended university. 2/3

So, by all means, challenge my argument. Identify a factual error. Question an inference. Produce evidence that supports an alternative interpretation. We might even have an interesting conversation. But declaring that something is fatuous nonsense does not demonstrate that it is. It merely establishes that you dislike it. And after several increasingly elaborate assessments of my motives, personality and psychological disposition, you've still managed to avoid addressing a single substantive criticism of Rowling's essay. For someone so terribly concerned about cogent arguments, you appear remarkably reluctant to make one."

Fucks sake. Please add fucking paragraphs. Then repost. Ta.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 10:04

Just as light relief

Sharing this hilarious video that the Good Law Project apparently think presents them in a good light, and revealing that 10k pointless emails have already been sent to the Mayor of London over this.
https://x.com/max__young/status/2114324529065722033

Max Young (@max__young) on X

Jolyon's Good Law Project now harassing the Mayor's office because the Oxford Street lights will be Harry Potter themed and therefore trans-exclusionary.

https://x.com/max__young/status/2114324529065722033

cryupmykingdom · Today 10:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NotBadConsidering · Today 10:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 10:04

Just as light relief

Sharing this hilarious video that the Good Law Project apparently think presents them in a good light, and revealing that 10k pointless emails have already been sent to the Mayor of London over this.
https://x.com/max__young/status/2114324529065722033

Painfu cringeworthy. She knows the internet is forever, right?

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 10:15

NotBadConsidering · Today 10:12

Painfu cringeworthy. She knows the internet is forever, right?

Well quite!

SidewaysOtter · Today 10:23

NotBadConsidering · Today 10:12

Painfu cringeworthy. She knows the internet is forever, right?

Ah but she will probably think that her righteousness will be there for everyone to see, and that this is a good thing. A true hero not only for our times but for future generations to be inspired by Hmm

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · Today 10:26

Let's all look on the bright side. We could be having Christmas dinner at the same table as that insufferable young woman. Imagine the horror.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · Today 10:32

Haha, she's pissed off waiting for an answer on the phone as GC women were waiting for the SC ruling to be enacted.

BendoftheBeginning · Today 11:01

UnaPersson · Yesterday 15:52

Telegraph and the dreaded Daily Mail are very TWAM too although I'm not sure if that's always been the case as I didn't used to read them.

I was so happy to find Mumsnet as it was the only website where people were allowed to say the emporer was wearing no clothes*

*i.e. is a bloke in a dress.

The Telegraph and DM are TWAM because they couldn’t believe their luck at finding a good grassroots pushback on the ever-burgeoning rainbow tribe. The MN origins of TWAM had very different roots.

We were very pro gay rights and comfortable with gender nonconformity in the first place, it was the “bio sex is a social construct and there is a such thing as a female penis” that set us off.

cryupmykingdom · Today 11:06

BendoftheBeginning · Today 11:01

The Telegraph and DM are TWAM because they couldn’t believe their luck at finding a good grassroots pushback on the ever-burgeoning rainbow tribe. The MN origins of TWAM had very different roots.

We were very pro gay rights and comfortable with gender nonconformity in the first place, it was the “bio sex is a social construct and there is a such thing as a female penis” that set us off.

Gay rights got to have that flavor as it was hijacked in many place by Marxists of one kind or another who thought it was license to allege that everything was 'contestable', and all sorts of notions of reality that they didn't like could be thrown up in the air and reordered according to their particular fever dream.

When for people like me, I just wanted a British Empire-era sodomy paragraph removed from a Criminal Code.

I didn't want anything to be in the space that paragraph had occupied.

Crisp, clear, white paper was fine.

BendoftheBeginning · Today 12:18

cryupmykingdom · Today 11:06

Gay rights got to have that flavor as it was hijacked in many place by Marxists of one kind or another who thought it was license to allege that everything was 'contestable', and all sorts of notions of reality that they didn't like could be thrown up in the air and reordered according to their particular fever dream.

When for people like me, I just wanted a British Empire-era sodomy paragraph removed from a Criminal Code.

I didn't want anything to be in the space that paragraph had occupied.

Crisp, clear, white paper was fine.

Edited

Marxism (c 1867, popularised over a hundred years ago) had little to do with it. If you want to pinpoint the philosophical underpinnings of GI, you’d do better pointing the finger at much more recent post-modernism, and then at the weird way the pandemic turned bodily alienation into a cult anyone could join.

Oddly the Morning Star (with their materialist analysis of the world) was against GI well before Spiked got excited about it. Funny, eh?

ArabellaScott · Today 12:51

I am absolutely delighted that the GLP is directing its followers to waste their time pestering the wrong people about a christmas light display.

I mean, it's wasting their time and money. This is a great help.

BackToLurk · Today 12:56

BendoftheBeginning · Today 12:18

Marxism (c 1867, popularised over a hundred years ago) had little to do with it. If you want to pinpoint the philosophical underpinnings of GI, you’d do better pointing the finger at much more recent post-modernism, and then at the weird way the pandemic turned bodily alienation into a cult anyone could join.

Oddly the Morning Star (with their materialist analysis of the world) was against GI well before Spiked got excited about it. Funny, eh?

And the right’s ’it’s the individual that matters and the market is king’ has more than a little to do with it.

Blueuggboots · Today 13:58

My (female) partner and I have massively opposing views on transgender issues. She won’t talk to me about it because my biological realism views offend her (we’re both healthcare professionals with biology qualifications??).

I love JKR. She’s amazing.

UnaPersson · Today 14:03

Blueuggboots · Today 13:58

My (female) partner and I have massively opposing views on transgender issues. She won’t talk to me about it because my biological realism views offend her (we’re both healthcare professionals with biology qualifications??).

I love JKR. She’s amazing.

I'm like this with DS (31). It will just start a row, so best not. He works for a University, though and has never really left the academic system.

It really annoys me, however, the blindness (or is it indifference) to the affect on women.

JKR is totally amazing.

ItsCoolForCats · Today 15:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 10:04

Just as light relief

Sharing this hilarious video that the Good Law Project apparently think presents them in a good light, and revealing that 10k pointless emails have already been sent to the Mayor of London over this.
https://x.com/max__young/status/2114324529065722033

Wow. Smuggy mcSmugface.

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