“Our facilities are places of privacy, dignity and respect. We ask you not to approach or question anyone about their use of facilities as this could constitute harassment”

[BlueOrangeRed]

In my work I sometimes visit universities and saw this on a poster today in the ladies toilets.

Is this the latest thing following the single sex spaces Supreme Court ruling? It’s the first time I’ve seen something like this.

I’m quite interested to know if it was put up following someone complaining they’ve been approached or questioned. Or whether it’s more of a preemptive attempt to ensure no one is ever questioned or approached.

"could" is doing a lot of work there.

On the other hand letting males use the ladies HAS been found to be harassment.

Is this in England?

It’s a new version of earlier notices which said, “if you see someone you don’t think should be in here, mind your own business.”

Presumably, they’ve worded it carefully in a way they believes complies with the law, but it’s essentially a threat to silence women, without being explicit about who it is intended for.

Well if the University follows the law, creates clear signage for the single sex spaces it's obliged to provide for employees, makes it clear that men harassing women via their presence in clearly labelled single sex spaces isn't ok, and creates some unisex options, then there will be no need for anyone to approach anyone, will there?

I wonder at what point we're allowed to say anything? When they've got their knob out (indecent exposure = a crime)? When they're asking for / offering a tampon (which is approaching people, after all)? When they're jacking off in the toilet (sexual harassment at the very least)? All of these are things that have been recorded and posted online or written about.

The question is if actual crimes are committed, will the University do anything about it or does it depend who the victim is? Do they see the law as optional?

They always like to get the word respect into these messages. I was always told respect was something you earned, not a gift you were entitled too

It's correct that no one should be challenging other facilities users while they are using the loo. That would constitute harassment.

The responsibility for providing single-sex facilities lies with the employer/service provider. The responsibility for telling trans people that they need to use the correct facilities for their sex or unisex alternatives lies with the employer/service provider. Disciplinary action against someone who refuses to follow such instructions lies with the employer or service provider. If the employer or service provider is failing these responsibilities then the employer or service provider should be sued for discrimination against the women who are disadvantaged by their failure to provide single sex facilities. It is not up to individual service users to directly police these things or challenge someone who is in the wrong facilities, only to complain to the relevant authorities for these failures and escalate those complaints as high as necessary until appropriate facilities are provided.

It sounds like there's no second part of that message, which there should be 'if you think someone is in here that shouldn't be or is committing a criminal act please report to XXX (telephone number etc)'

It's all about silencing women. They don't seem to know about all the crimes that happen in unisex toilets despite that info being widely available on 2 seconds of research (and they're a Uni so you'd hope they could do that, and a risk assessment) nor give a shit about anyone having the ability to do something about those crimes.

You are still wrong.

It's also religious discrimination / harassment, sex discrimination / harassment and potentially also disability discrimination / harassment to allow men into spaces labelled as for women.

Do they care about that? What should someone do if they're the victim of that harassment. E.g. a Muslim woman who can't use any toilets because she reasonably believes a male bodied person could be in there.

For a start it's a highly contestible lot of nonsense:

if their facilities are all about 'privacy, dignity and respect' then where is the provision protected for those who need single sex for their access due to their particular needs and diversity? This is plain MRA with glitter and pretty words.

And bluntly: they're against the law, the law being there to protect women from people like this and their bloody silly ideas and mad misogyny.

My favoured approach when I see signs like that is to remove them.

Yes, in England.

There was some text below what I quoted that said ‘to share concerns about usage of the facilities please email EDI@universityname

The EDI department. 😂 Probably the same department that's responsible for the sign then, they're likely to be a big help.

You may want to tell the university and the local authority that they are breaking Building Regulations for their toilet designs. They have materially changed who is permitted in the single sex design, so it is not single sex.

ADT states toilet cubicles should lead out onto a single sex environment.

Just tear it down

"It is not up to individual service users to directly police these things or challenge someone who is in the wrong facilities, only to complain to the relevant authorities for these failures and escalate those complaints as high as necessary until appropriate facilities are provided."

You do you, meanwhile I'll be telling any blokes in the women's to get the Fuck out.

Not on. Obviously meant to silence women.

Could you share which uni?

Tear it down and burn it.

Silencing women and attempting to coercively control our natural safety instincts. If something looks and feels wrong trust your instinct is what I believe and has kept me safe in dodgy situations. Encouraging women and children to ignore this is dangerous. But that's all part of this warped ideology. Tearing them down is a good shout.

Indeed! That amused me too. Maybe I should have added the legal department’s email to the poster 🤣

"Whatever the law says or what you feel yourself, BE KIND."

"Ask yourself - is it really kindly, feminine behaviour to say no to a man who wants to be in this toilet? "

If anyone else sees this kind of sign at a university, I would take a picture and email the VC, Chair of Council, Chair of the Health and Safety Committee (or equivalent), and University Secretary, explaining what it appears the university EDI people have authorized, and that you are concerned that the university may be putting themselves at legal risk and ask that they look into it. Then print a copies of your emails and send them to the above, recorded delivery, so they cannot claim they didn't receive them.

I guarantee you not one of them will know anything about the signs, nor will anyone outside EDI have signed off on them.

Universities have visitors from all over the world, and they have a right to expect that the "ladies toilets" will be for biological women only. Ditto for staff (especially staff, because the university is their employer) and students.