WellBN Brighton GP practice do not believe in evidence based medicine. TT at employment tribunal tomorrow

[impossibletoday]

In case anyone is interested

https://x.com/LoudBonnet/status/2107877530602443058

I have no wish to derail this thread, but here is a link to Brighton WellBN, an article by Nick Wallis, about a parent who took the clinic to court earlier in May this year. Apparently, the clinic was handing out hormones and puberty blockers like sweets to children, some of them under 13. It makes for shocking reading.

https://genderblog.net/gender-clinic-investigation-stays-secret/

TT

BW takes to Amroliwala ix, there is a discussion of what Dr R had told you, you say 180 patients
C this is Amroliwala abridged document, lots of problems with this
BW what Dr R had written was that WellBN was treating 180 trans patients, you assumed that SH was prescribing

for them all.
C No, there were 180 patients, doesn't mean SH was prescribing for all of them BW that's not what you said
C can you give me the page number
BW [scrolling] trying to do this in a way that is useful, just trying.....let the computer catch up,

BW its going to crash.
[CB helping to find the doc] [bundle issues]
BW go to page 480, do you see at the bottom, email 19 Jan - you sent to.... CB - its 27 August
BW yes, you describe SH as a trans activist, put your concerns about quick medicalisation

and not enough testing, background, you are making an assumption here that SH is prescribing for 180 patients when in fact he's treating 180 patients, so you jumped to a conclusion that he was prescribing
C It was my convo with Dr R, SH advised Dr R to prescribe, it was his

approach.
BW so you jumped to a conclusion that he was prescribing for all of them because of your view of him.
C yes,
BW you made a complaint about SH in Aug 2020, you say the Rs should have been aware of that,
C I copied colleagues at ICB

Sorry, but I need to get this off my chest. Am I the only person who when hearing that someone has 'manifested their GC belief', pictures a cauldron, flamboyant gestures and clouds of violet, green and white smoke?

TT

BW but you complained to regulator
C I copied them
BW you're saying they knew or should have known about your concerns, and they were bona fide complaints
C yes
BW now you say when SH complained about you subsequent to that, Rs should have know that was retaliatory

C can you give me question again
BW do Rs should have known that SH complaint about you in 2021, was SH's retaliation
C not necessarily
BW should they have rejected it out of hand
C no, all complaints require a response
BW go to page 477 early in chrono

BW what we have is an email from you to colleagues, number of recipients, and you.....
C I don't have that
J thats 478
BW what you say is that some of your colleagues may feel conflicted, you included, you recognised potential conflicts, because of your social contacts

C the conflict is that it is not nice to have to refer a colleague, I've never done that before
BW but its not because of the social contact
C no, you can only refer people that you know
BW but you don't see that it's a potential conflict for you because you knew him

C no, he did his training at WellBN, so they knew him
BW when you said 'me included' was it because you had a personal association with him
C no, patients must come first, personal association had no influence
BW so not worried because of social contact

TT

C I had seen whistleblowing policy, worried about repercussions from complaint BW repercussions because SH was an activisit
C worried because he was high profile
BW were you worried that if you complained about SH he would immediately level a specific accusation

C I was worried it was possible
BW you described SH as a trans activist, not an advocate, why an activist
C because that's what he was, that's who he is a trans activist
BW there is a certain connotation describing him that way, that he was militant
C he was very ideological

I wonder who she emailed at the ICB? A lot of staff there were TRAs - including the Commissioner who posted on X that the original decision to stop prescribing cross sex hormones would result in suicides. Total breach of use of social
media regs and no disciplinary action taken….

TT

BW you formed that view based on what you were reading about him
C partly
BW so what else
C we had transgender friends in common and they thought he was quite extreme
BW so that where things you learned in a social context impacted your views in the workplace

C I couldn't ignore what I knew about him. My concern was that his activism was interfering with his practice.
BW so best place to investigate concerns was NHSE,
C that's the advice I was given
BW by referring to SH trans activism, it's in the open, that's his pc

but because he's open about it, that is inappropriate
C it was how he was prescribing, he advised Dr R to prescribe for patient had never met or assessed
BW his practice and also because he was out there saying things in public, that was a problem
C I think it could create

problems in his practice
BW by describing in those terms, activist, and not experienced, are you not signposting to the reader that they should be wary of him
C not be wary, signposting them to consider the possibility, its the context.

BW you have already said that you were wary of him complaining about you, calling
C not wary or cautious, sharing the context, he did not appear to be providing EBM healthcare, why might that be, it was context, not for me to investigate
BW you are signposting and

saying inexperienced, and an activist and they brought a tribunal
C there had been accusations of transphobia
BW do you know about that tribunal
C no
BW now an email from you, setting out the second issue, SH giving evidence, you set out that you have a reasonable

BW by referring to SH trans activism, it's in the open, that's his pc

Being a TA is a protected characteristic?! 😬😳🤔

TT

basis for concern, believe that there was a tribunal, allegations of transphobia, why did you mention that
C concern about allegations of transphobia
BW on 27 Aug, p 537, said to be first protected act, how this is framed as protected act by advocate, what you clearly raise

are patient safety concerns.
C yes
BW not interested in lawyers labels, what was in your mind
J interrupts, on wrong page
BW when looking at this, where are you complaining about potential discrim,
C email about concerns
BW are you complaining about discrimination

where are you complaining about discrimination,
C there is the RCPG position statement, evidence based,
J interrupts, legal issues,
BW her thought process may or may not have had a bearing, a matter for submissions. But it's clear from the document that you want to be treated

as a whistleblower,
C can't find
BW its 538, will save that for subs, what happened in the aftermath of you raising that complaint was closed by 20 Nov, that was their decision, NHSE not a party to these proceedings, you think looking back it was a flawed decision to close that

Not any more.

By way of background here is an interview with Dr Sam Hall, a woman who identifies as a man, about themselves and WellBN.

TT

i/x.
C yes
BW but that was NHSE decision nothing to do with Rs.
C yes
BW there's a discussion with points put to SH, investigator appears to accept SH responses. (Dr Cochran Dyet(sp?) (Dr CD)
BW now reading out from notes, you're given a name of a supervisor, you don't think

has a supervisory role.
C I don't think that person had a supervisory relationship
BW that doctor was a sexual health doctor
C not appropriate to supervise care of patients with gender dysphoria
BW what did you know about that doctor

C I had heard of her and knew what her practice was,
BW how did you know she wasn't an appropriate supervisor, solely based on her title
C based on her job role
BW doesn't say anything about her past experience etc, so you formed your opinion based on title

C she was well known to be practising as a sexual health doctor
BW why did you doubt the NHSE findings that there was a supervisory r'ship
C this was a GP practice, seemed to be setting up a gender clinic, that's a big thing, need formal supervision, formal links,

BW but you were raising these concerns based on your general knowledge
C I pushed back on this, starting a gender clinic is a big deal
BW now a pro forma letter that raised concerns in mind of doctor, that is rec'd and the doctor raises concerns to you,

TT

[Dr Mickelthwaite]. Conversation of August 2021, between Amroliwawa,
C its Mr Mickelthwaite
BW you say you're just passing on what you heard from Mr M, you're slightly misrepresenting what he was saying to you, go to page 590, an email from Tom Mickelthwaite, anonymised version

of patient letter, has there been further guidance on that practice or its appropriateness. That's his complaint to you, he's not saying unsafe or illegitimate
C after our phone call, he was wondering about the safety and legitimacy of the the service
BW hes asking about it

TT

but not raising those issues
C in our phone call, he was very concerned, he said he had instructed his clinicians not to refer or to use the service.
BW but not raising concerns
C given the previous issues, he was surprised to receive the letter and had concerns if safe and

legitimate.
BW you do forward this on at a later stage, the letter rec'd from the practice manager, described as new info, which NHSE agrees. Prompts a second i/x, page 509, the alleged second protected act, will take J's direction and not question you on it. Have you found it

Have to pop out now, will continue when I get back unless someone else picks up the slack!

Ben Williams seems a bit fighty.

Well I didn't but I probably will now 😆

😁 with a womantra of 'I will not wheesht!'

So mote it be

🧙🏻

Ah thanks, ok that makes sense in the context of the PC comment

So this is a man identifying as a woman, and a woman, who has taken hormones and had surgery(?) identifying as a man?

“There was a most remarkable concert last night... The man who should have been playing the violin was playing the piano, the man who should have been playing the piano was turning the pages, and the man who should have been turning the pages was playing the violin.”

The mornings’s session is here:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/2108108891309638118.html

Don't forget Dr Redvers & Dr Sam Hall in the choir.

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