Puberty blockers for an eight-year-old with early puberty and short stature?

[Cattenberg]

This isn’t about gender, but as you collectively seem to know a lot about puberty blockers, I thought you might give me some things to think about before I take DD to a GP appointment next week.

DD is eight and is already showing some early signs of puberty. She is also very short for her age (a family trait) and sometimes complains about being the shortest in her class and the second shortest in her year group.

I understand that starting puberty at eight isn’t classed as precocious puberty, but that it would be if she were seven. And I know that everyone develops at their own rate, but my concern is that by starting puberty early, DD won’t reach her full potential height (which would be short, anyway).

I don’t know if taking puberty blockers for a year or two would be an option in DD’s case, but I’d like to know more about the benefits and drawbacks.

You response suggests you didn’t find it necessary to stop women talking about menopause. Funny that…

Why wouldn’t I want women to talk about the menopause?

Because, you keep insisting it is unsafe to discuss lived experience of a health issues online and they should only be discuss with a medical professional.

Of course what you actually mean is you don’t want public discussion of precocious puberty and treatment thereof because it is used as a gotcha for trans and you don’t want that undermined. You are pretty transparent.

My first step would be speaking to the GP I think.

I haven’t actually said people can’t discuss whatever they like. I’ve just said the OP should really consider sticking to expert medical advice rather than relying on anything here, as responses on this part of the site are likely to come with biases (and whilst I do have a ‘side’, I have been happy to say more than once that I accept BOTH sides may have biases / a potential agenda here 🤷‍♀️)

Perhaps then rather than calling PP ‘extreme’ you should have said you agreed with the numerous PP that told OP she should consult her GP.

I do think that some - not all - of the gender critical posters on Mumsnet are extremists. Some are absolutely fanatical about a single issue that has very little to do with their lives.

BUT I didn’t tell them not to express their views. I just suggested it wouldn’t be a great idea to listen to them about medical care for a child.

Ah so women can express views so long as no one listens to them?

You are sounding increasingly misogynistic.

Because I don’t think people should turn to untrained, single issue fanatics for medical advice?

But aren’t there whole forums on trans Reddit dedicated to how to get hormones and puberty blockers, and even make your own or buy from dodgy suppliers with no medical supervision? Are you saying all those people should not be giving advice? I do completely agree.

'Puberty blockers' (GnRH agonists) are not used to block puberty in the case of precocious puberty. They are used to delay it with the intention of allowing sufficient growth before the growth plates close, which prevents further growth. They are used when there is a premature onset of puberty, diagnosed after careful testing and assessment of the body.

The reason precocious puberty is sometimes treated is because there are physical health risks that are associated with it. Higher BMI, larger waist circumference, higher chance of type 2 diabetes, coronary heart disease, stroke, angina, and hypertension. Increased risk of cancers due to prolonged estrogen production in girls. Also, mental health challenges associated by the expectation of more mature behaviour due to advanced physical development, and reduced adult height.

An endocrinologist makes a careful assessment of the stage of pubertal development, the likely developmental trajectory, and the likely outcomes to balance the risks of treatment against the risks of no treatment. There is no perfect solution. Nobody thinks that delaying puberty is without risk and without side effects. If treatment is given it is because the conclusion has been reached that the risk of not treating outweighs the risk of treating. Treatment is discontinued once the patient reaches an age where puberty would be natural and have a lower impact on adult height.

The use of GnRH agonists in gender affirming care is longer term. Unless a patient changes their mind, the therapy has to continue or convert to cross-sex hormones. In time, I think society will look back and consider it madness that a psychological issue (gender dysphoria) was treated in such a physical way with such long-term physical risks.

DD started developing some signs of puberty around 8/9 but then it was a very slow development and he started her periods at 12 in line with peers. I would be guided by the doctors but not overly concerned

Yes. Dds endocrinologist is very sure that she will reach her projected height of 5ft5. Shes only just under 5 ft currently and her period should start soon so thats a fair bit of growing he thinks she is still going to do.

Ideally, I would like everyone to have access to the professional advice and medical care they need. Of course I would prefer that people didn’t feel so desperate they needed to put their health in the care of dodgy internet suppliers or make their own; unfortunately trans folks cannot always access the healthcare they need.

That’s not what’s going on in here. The OP and her daughter can access appropriate medical care, and all I’ve done is flag that the gender and sex forum on Mumsnet is not the number one place to go for advice on care for precocious puberty.

The strength of the response has reassured me that raising it was the right thing to do. It is sinister how hard people argued on this thread that the medical knowledge and expertise on this site is ‘second to none’ etc.

What are GC women being scolded for now? checks notes

Ah, telling a mother who is concerned about her daughter going through early puberty that she should seek specialist medical advice and help, but when they were in a similar situation this is what their experiences were.

You monsters!

Interesting that a special mention was given to the "GC posters" only too 💅

Hardly an extreme view really - thinking that humans cant change their sex. A while ago I came across the idea that belief in trans is just the same as any other religious belief I dont share. I think it was that lady who does the HR podcast, "This isnt working".
It certainly makes it easier for me to understand now.

What made you think @Cattenberg was unaware of the types of views she might hear?

💯

I turned down cosmetic surgery for my daughter that would have been available on the NHS, because as soon as they listed the potential risks of the procedure, I decided that I would never risk her life and health for something that was simply aesthetic.

I guess being short does affect someone slightly more than only appearance, but I would never take a healthy child and agree to medical treatment with risks unless there was a clear clinical need or proven advantage (eg vaccination).

That attitude predated my sex realist views by many years. I saw my daughter as beautiful and worked to give her confidence that she was perfect as she was.

There is no way I would medicalise my child because she’s a bit unhappy being short. One of the most amazing women I know is tiny, but my goodness, she is feisty and grown men wouldn’t argue with her. Modern society is far too obsessed with appearance and I feel we should be fighting that and not giving in to it.

Good luck, OP. Discuss it with a doctor if you are genuinely worried, but interfering with a healthy body is something I would never consider.

Because I presume the OP cares deeply about her daughter’s healthcare and making the best choices she can for her.

And here is not where you would come if you both cared about getting the best advice on your child’s healthcare AND had full knowledge of the various agendas likely to be at play in this space.

Also I see lots of people on here all the time who have been thoroughly taken in by the idea that GC mumsnetters are absolute experts, or have deep medical knowledge. As I’ve said several times, someone has been claiming the knowledge on here is ‘second to none’…. And that’s dangerous.

This is an adult who has posted on the FWR board in the past. They are therefore presumably fully aware of the views they are likely to encounter, which, given that, makes it sound like you are saying that they therefore don't care about getting the best healthcare for their daughter. What is it that you specifically object to in the replies she has received?

I’ve said everything I want to say @BackToLurk, and I think my posts set out my concerns and reasons for being on this thread quite clearly (you might not agree with me, but I think my specific concerns are evident). You might just have to do some reading and thinking I’m afraid if you’re still unsure!

They do have access to the healthcare they need. They may not have access to the healthcare they want. There is a difference. If body modifications are not covered by insurance or the NHS, surely there might be a good reason for that. Theres a reason we don’t let kids make life changing decisions such as PB. They do not understand the long term consequences..

They don’t want health care they want people to do what they say - which it to provide drugs and cosmetic surgery to help them deceive others as to their sex, or for sexual arousal. If they wanted actual healthcare they would support medical records recording their correct sex, which they don’t.