Amid myriad crises, Stormont is spending three days debating if someone can invent their own gender

[IwantToRetire]

NB - extracts only

... The bill would place “gender identity” in Northern Ireland’s criminal law for the first time, but doesn’t define it beyond saying that it is “what the victim considers it to be” and “what the [defendant] considers it to be”.

Essentially, the bill leaves the issue of gender wholly subjective. As well as male and female, an individual could claim to be anything under the sun, and if someone sought to “suppress” that, they could be in trouble with the law.

In relation to gender identities already in use, DUP MLA Brian Kingston claimed there were 72 genders. Party colleague Deborah Erskine said she believed there could be more than 100. Buckley said it could be 136.

The most extraordinary aspect of the Assembly proceedings was an attempt to shut down debate on this aspect of the bill. When Tennyson was asked how many genders it would cover, he wasn’t allowed to either answer the question or refuse to answer.

Instead, principal deputy speaker Carál Ní Chuilín interjected to block the question. The veteran Sinn Féin MLA said that “to pre-empt a raft of questions”, she wanted to make clear that the bill defined gender as “what the victim considers it to be” and so “it is not for Eóin Tennyson or anyone else to talk about how many genders there are”.

This is a deeply problematic way in which to make criminal law. If someone is potentially going to be jailed for two years — as they could be under this bill — they surely have a right to know what gender even means.

If gender involves something amorphous which is beyond definition, then do we want the courts to be jailing people in this area and can the courts realistically enforce such legislation? Suppressing such questions in a legislature is indefensible. ...

To read the article in full go to https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/amid-myriad-crises-stormont-is-spending-three-days-debating-if-someone-can-invent-their-own-gender/a/162151085.html

And also https://archive.is/i4R8O

Oh dear.

Mind you, there might be a positive outcome if it shows how ridiculous this all is.

the more ridiculous law is - the easier it can be to appeal it - it is why law is a combination of statue books and case law

Well, if there is ever one place you want ambiguity and lack of definition, it is the law.

And especially when the law in question relies precisely on what exactly words mean in order to judge whether it has been broken or not. Vagueness and lack of clarity really help with this.

Sounds like a winner! Is it sponsored by a collective of Irish lawyers or something? They're going to make a killing off it!

What a bizarre waste of time and resources. Why on earth would a government debate passing law on anything so ill-defined?

Because it is part of the Conversion Practices (Criminalisation) Bill which will also be happening in the House of Commons.

So absolutely central to the campaigning around that.

Being old enough to remember the Troubles in Northern Ireland and Gerry Adams' voice not being allowed to be broadcast on TV etc, there's something a bit surreal about Sinn Féin and the DUP arguing about how many genders there are.

Also isn't this argument a bit 2019?

I agree. It’s almost funny

You can almost imagine it as a Father Ted episode

How can something indefinable be debated or legislated?

"Instead, principal deputy speaker Carál Ní Chuilín interjected to block the question. The veteran Sinn Féin MLA said that “to pre-empt a raft of questions”, she wanted to make clear that the bill defined gender as “what the victim considers it to be” and so “it is not for Eóin Tennyson or anyone else to talk about how many genders there are”.

That's the most ridiculous part, trying to shut down any conversation about how many genders there are in a debate about 'gender identity'.
But then Sinn Fein is an organisation used to getting their way, they're not used to allowing people to have an opinion that doesn't support the Sinn Fein stand. Even without guns, they're bullies and thugs.
The idea that someone could end up going to prison for 2 years just because they said something or didn't say something that an individual took offence with, is horrifying. Is this what the 30 years of murder and terror were for. It will be the ultra power trip for the perpetually offended.

DUP MLA Brian Kingston claimed there were 72 genders. Party colleague Deborah Erskine said she believed there could be more than 100. Buckley said it could be 136.

Gender is infinite, babies! This is priceless. They must surely be embarrassed to be arguing such nonsense in public?

Well this is on the political agenda. So maybe we will be treated to an equally bizarre discussion in the HoC.

Forget about genders. At least is listed, however many there are, they are described.

How do you legislate for fluidity or non binary. Do you have to wear a badge each day to say what you are that day.

Or can you just take offence at anything, because it is bound to not align even for a second with one of your amorphous entities.

I must say that I am relieved that all the legacy problems faced by Northern Ireland have been resolved and the NI Assembly is now free to spend all it's time on niffnaff and trivia.

Oh! And then we have the latest standoff in Porterdown.

‘Niffnaff’
I love it 🤣

On a more sober note, all this tastes rather bitter in light of Sinn Féin’s child abuse scandals and serious safeguarding failures.

I think the DUP will be coming at this from the perspective of it all being nonsense and wanting to highlight that.

Never in my life would I have thought I would ever support anything the DUP said, but here we are. 😡

Ah, I see. Thanks! It worked!

You and me both.

I wonder was the debate televised anywhere, I'd love to see it

There can be as many genders in believers’ lives as there are gods in all believers’ pantheons. Fill yer boots, as they say. But that’s just it: your boots, not mine. Your genders, your goods, your beliefs. Nothing to do with me. I don’t have to acknowledge, accept, or validate them. And I certainly don’t have to carry out any acts of respect towards them.

The trouble seems to be that if you don't, you may be liable to imprisonment.

If the believers would just keep their mental gymnastics inside their own mental spaces, then they could indeed believe whatever they wanted and nobody would care particularly; but they are trying to make it to do with you and enforce your compliance with their nonsense.

There are 330 million gods in Hinduism, imagine trying to find a secular system that would work if we had to show 'respect' for all that.

Northern Ireland Conversion Practices Ban Bill passes key vote

‘Today’s vote is a great victory for the rights of LGBT+ people in Northern Ireland, and a welcome step towards ending practices that tell LGBT+ people they need to be “fixed”. The evidence from Northern Ireland shows the harm these practices cause and why protection is urgently needed.

‘We wholeheartedly thank the MLAs who supported the Bill. As it moves to detailed scrutiny, we will continue to press for a comprehensive ban, without loopholes that allow conversion practices to continue under the guise of prayer or pastoral support. Everyone deserves to live with dignity, free from attempts to change who they are.’

https://humanists.uk/2026/09/28/victory-northern-ireland-conversion-practices-ban-bill-passes-key-vote/

Very depressing 😞