Bristol Watershed toilets situation.

[TemporarilyCantDoMyself]

Could do with some help. I attend the Bristol Watershed frequently, it's my favourite place to see a film and has been for many years. Until a couple of years ago the toilets were single sex, then they converted the main toilet block into mixed cubicles, open to all. BUT there's a corridor behind the bar, little used, which also had toilets and they remained separate sexes. Or so I thought.

The other day I went and used the corridor toilet while I was there, but they've got new 'trans inclusive' signs up. I used it anyway and came home and wrote them an email, to which I've just had a reply.

I sent this; Dear Watershed, Since my last visit signs have gone up outside the toilets in the back corridor that say ‘trans inclusive’. So you no longer provide women only facilities. Can you tell me why? I am a frequent user of the Watershed and very unhappy about this. As far as I understand it, it’s also against the law. I intend to look into this further. Thank you so much, yours, TemporarilyCantDoMyself

Just received this reply; Dear TemporarilyCantDoMyself,

The toilets in the Café & Bar corridor that you are referring to have always been used by Trans+ people - this was even written in our code of conduct. And whilst I expect most Trans+ people are using the inclusive loos, there are some Trans + people who (like some cis people) prefer not to use gender neutral toilets.
The only change we have made is signage - the updated EHRC code suggests we need to formally recognise these toilets as mixed sex and tell people we have done so. This is not illegal, in fact without new signs the EHRC code could have left us vulnerable to legal action.
For the small minority who don't want to use these toilets, or our gender neutral toilets, we have designated two fully enclosed toilets as single sex toilets.
^You can see all the information regarding our current toilet provision here - https://www.watershed.co.uk/info/everything-you-need-know-about-toilets-at-watershed^

Best wishes
Clare Reddington
CEO, Watershed

I'm just so upset. I'm 71 and I've been a feminist since I was 15, and I'm so bloody tired and frankly want to ignore it all and just try and live my life. The one single sex women's toilet referred to in the reply, by the way, is past the entrance to the cinemas so in order to use it I either have to be seeing a film or to ask permission to use it without seeing a film.

Fuck me I just don't want to.
Also there's so much to unpack in that reply and I just feel daunted. Trans+ for one thing - are the LGBs all just + to the Trans now, is that what that is? (I'm bisexual by the way). And the use of cis of course. And the sneering reference to the small minority who don't want to use the toilets. Etc.

Help me write something coherent in reply that isn't just ARGH I'M NEVER COMING BACK TO THE WATERSHED NOW AND I HATE YOU which is very much what I'd LIKE to say.
So as not to dripfeed, I have a trans relative and a family rift so I do feel extra sensitive and upset on the subject.
Thanks.

I'm pretty sure you're correct @EyesOpening .
There was a post on this thread where @keeptoiletssafe posted a pic of the 2010 Building Regs, so it looks like they're breaking the law there.

Can I double check, OP. Is the signage now “Ladies (trans inclusive)” and “Gents (trans inclusive)?

Or does it just say “Trans inclusive” without any indication of a sex-based split?

I’m going to assume it still says ladies and gents for now.

If their set up is technically compliant, which I suspect it is, because they are offering a single sex toilet, even though it’s inconvenient, your best approach might be for you, and hopefully some friends, to adopt a trans identity and start using the Gents on every possible occasion.

I realise this might be unpleasant for the men in there, however it might be your quickest way to convince the management that inclusiveness doesn’t work for everyone.

Glad to see @Keeptoiletssafe here, I was going to tag you as thought you may be able to help with links.

I've found on the Gov website Approved Document T - Toilet accomodation that they only mention four types of toilet:
Type A: fully enclosed self contained universal toilet
Type B: fully enclosed self contained ambulant universal toilet
Type C: ambulant single-sex toilet cubicle (not self-contained)
Type D: single-sex toilet cubicle (not self-contained)

with a definition of universal being:
Toilet facilities provided in a fully enclosed room which contains a water-closet and washbasin and hand-drying facilities, and is intended for individual use by persons of either sex.

This indicates to me that anything else is unacceptable.

It's handy that Watershed is a Registered Charity No. 284188 as you can CC them into your communication.

Dear Claire,
Thank you for your reply and I'm glad to see your new toilet provision goes beyond the minimum and you have introduced universal toilets.
I'm very pleased to see your website states that you ask everyone to treat one another with kindness and understanding as I'm sure you would like to extend that to the people who prefer single sex toilets, which the ones I have used are only legally acceptable for.

@PriOn1 oh, good question and one I need to check on myself. I did fail to take in the full glory of what they'd put on the doors but I'll be back there this coming Sunday and I'll take pics. As well as saying trans inclusive they had added four pictograms underneath which I gave no time to as at the time I was just pissed off and trying to get on with my day, but clearly if I in any sense take this on I'll need to be clear what they are saying. The four pictograms were under the old men's sign too. I'm guessing they were to indicate men, women, trans men and trans women, all welcome in both.
I'll check though.
Very grateful for everyone's responses.

Trying to visualise a transwoman pictogram: fishnets? 😃

😂 I'll let you know. In fact I'll get pics!

@TemporarilyCantDoMyself the venue needs to look at the fact their toilets do not conform to current building regulations for non domestic toilets in England which state cubicles should lead on to single sex environments:
ADT 1.22
The layout when entering, exiting and using a toilet room or cubicle should cater for the safety, privacy and dignity of users. Cubicle doors should only open into single-sex toilet accommodation.

If the cubicle doors or partitions have door gaps, they can only lead on to a single sex environment. I have that straight from the Health and Safety Executive.

There are also various judgements that have made it clear that it’s discriminatory to have the washroom in a mixed sex environment. The Kelly judgement in Scotland (which went against the legislation) is the only one that differs from this and is flawed. It should hopefully be appealed because it will win on appeal. However this is England and so you have even clearer regulations. This is because ‘facilities’ includes the washbasin and a method of drying your hands.

If the Watershed want to do a risk assessment and equality impact assessment I can help. They need to look at their customers who will be most vulnerable in a toilet statistically, those whom they do not appear to be helping at the moment.

Regulations attached:

I probably should have included this definition too:

Single-sex toilet Toilet facilities intended for the exclusive use of persons of the same sex, and with washbasins and hand-drying facilities in either the toilet room or cubicle, or in a separate area intended for use only by persons of that sex.
This would indicate to me that if the sign on the door says or indicates ladies/female then it is a single-sex facility. If the provision inside does not meet the universal definition, then it cannot legally be mixed-sex.

TBC when I said "It's handy that Watershed is a Registered Charity No. 284188 as you can CC them into your communication." I meant copy in The Charity Commission.
It seems you can't just do that though, here are their contact details:
The Charity Commission - GOV.UK

If you really want to be a nuisance, you could also cc Building Control Enforcement at Bristol City Council, advising that the venue has modified the toilet provision in contravention of the building regs, and request an investigation. Now given that the council is woker than woke, that probably won't do a lot of good, but it's worth a try.

Correct. Not a nice person and a traitor to her sex.

It is indeed just spite as a PP said. Watershed are reliant on Arts Council England funding, you could write to them about your experience.

Love the touch re the previous single sex toilets - hahaha ackshewally we were lying about them all along anyway and tricked you into using mixed sex hahaha

I like this. And I'm hopeful of raising the energy to be a nuisance.

Yes, the council is a reet pain in the arse.

It could be indirect discrimination against women, as per the EHRC guidance, to have only mixed sex facilities.

This looks v useful thank you, and this bit is relevant for the OP

• What is illegal here: A venue cannot simply take an old communal bathroom (with shared sinks and a main door) and rename it "gender-neutral". Doing so compromises privacy and can trigger a sex discrimination claim from women. []

Given that there was enough room for the single sex women's toilets, it would seem that taking them out of commission as single sex spaces could be discriminating against women.

The 'direction of travel' in building regs for new builds - and for significant renovations/alterations, I believe - has been to make separate single sex spaces obligatory , unless there isn't enough space.
Taking existing SSS out of action is against the spirit if not the letter of regulations.

Must be amazing to not have any genuine problems in your life.

No toilets are safe, and you joking?!

Public toilets don't have some invisible forcefield keeping sex offenders out which trans women have fooled by wearing lippy.

They're places we've always feared because anyone can get in and hide there, or drag you into. You know how certain people take the piss out of working-class girls going to the toilet together? That's to keep each other safe.

Pretending public toilets are anything more than unsafe, open spaces with lockable cubicles is a total insult to women.

There is no 'social contract'. Some cis men are repelled by women's toilets and some aren't. Sex offenders are put off if women aren't alone. That's it.

As if anyone needs to transition or throw on a dress to get in the Ladies. As if this perfectly normal situation (described above) is in any way important, or feminism. My God what an utterly ridiculous waste of time.

Being repulsed by trans women isn't feminism either btw. Nor is it violence. Just a bigoted reflex you need to educate yourself out of.

So when my elderly Mum, who is incredibly triggered by the idea of finding a man in the ladies because she was assaulted in a bathroom by a man as a teen, either doesn't go out or doesn't wee while she is out so ends up with a bladder infection or dehydrated that's not a real problem.

Good to know.

Some women need single sex spaces.

Err I think @keeptoiletssafe knows her stuff TPA
And here you are again spouting 'bigot' and 'educate yourself' the usual tropes.
Who is 'repulsed by TW'? We want to keep MEN out, silly.
It won't wash- you should know by now, that your rubbish arguments count for zilch. Think of your blood pressure

You know how certain people take the piss out of working-class girls going to the toilet together? That's to keep each other safe.

Well that's bullshit. In our case it was so we could have a good old natter without Kev and Trev listening.

Yes and this 1,2,3 is very simplistic. ADT is based on BS6465 which has 4 parts and goes into a huge amount of detail that is very difficult to summarise. This is where the venue should have got better advice.

There are lots of problems with 2. (The brackets are missing for where the AI post got this information from but it’s misinformed).

For example (my bold) these are just a few:
ADT (2024):
‘In the Secretary of State’s view, requirement T1 is met by ensuring all of the following.
a. Separate single-sex toilet facilities are provided. Universal toilets can be provided in addition to single-sex provision and where space allows’.
‘once reasonable provision is made for single-sex toilet facilities, any remaining space for toilet accommodation can
be considered for universal toilet provision’.
‘Numbers and ratios for the provision of urinals, washbasins and WCs vary with the building’s function and population. For good access and the safety of the users, universal toilets, with outward or inward opening doors, must open onto a well-lit corridor or circulation space’.

From
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l24.pdf
People with disabilities
238 Regardless of their disability, people should be able to gain access to
buildings and use the facilities. This could mean that an employer may need to
make some changes to a building or premises to take account of the disabled
person’s needs……..
■ there should be suitable toilets designed for wheelchair users and disabled people who can walk;
■ for disabled people, suitable toilet accommodation may take the form of
■ specially designed cubicles in separate-sex toilet washrooms or a self-contained unisex toilet;
■ for disabled people who can walk, doors to compartments should be outward-opening

What the above is referencing is ambulant toilet design (handrails, shelves etc but no alarm). I think ambulant designs should all have door gaps as they are designed for people who are frailer medically. For example why go to the expense of installing a handrail to grab on to but no way on knowing if someone has had a stroke on the floor? They should be in separate-sex toilet washrooms which by default means there should be separate-sex toilet washrooms.

I think there’s a strong case that for the millions of people with conditions like epilepsy, diabetes, brain injuries and heart conditions, that a floor-door gap of a maximum 15cm is a reasonable adjustment. Space above the door is useful too. That can only be in a toilet in a single sex environment like a washroom. I know it will save lives (because I saved one) and I know from my research that it prevents assaults too. Having the wc (gapped) cubicle separate from the washroom is also proven to be advantageous for cleaning, ventilation and preventing misuse such as drugs and sex. It is economic (don’t need as much ventilation, visual audio alarms, sink plumbing and dryer wiring) and the most efficient way for the most people to use the toilet in a set time like an theatre interval. It also helps if you get trapped as you can call for help and get someone to help you escape over the door/partition - rather than the fire brigade using a sledgehammer. Finally, in a building evacuation, it’s much quicker to assess if anyone has been left behind.

We all know women are always short changed with toilets. It is recommended that women have twice at many units as men to achieve the same wait time given an equal number of men and women queueing. This is for biological reasons. If the venue really valued women, and women were on average 50% of their audience, this would be a good time to make sure they really get it right.

Calculations do exist to work out how many toilets women and men should have and can be seen in various organisation documents that respect and regard British Standards (note they won’t have to make any changes to their loos).

I could go on…..
The main thing is that it appears building regs for health and safety have been compromised in this venue for the preference of everyone having access to every toilet.

Yeah I'm so glad you posted this. I popped in today to use the loos, and whilst I had heard that they had gone unisex I was still hoping to find a single sex space. I walked in, and not wanting to hang around and have to work out what toilet was which I went left, which is just normal cubicle loos and "ambulatory loos" which had pictures of people with crutches on, which seems a bit niche, but I felt like I didn't have the privacy I needed. I had an abortion 48 hours ago, still bleeding quite badly and just needed a moment in a toilet away from the crowds to change my pads, but as I could hear a man grunting in the cubicle next to me I just felt uncomfortable. I just don't understand the thinking. I am pretty squeamish when it comes to heating other people toiletting anyway, but this just felt super uncomfortable. I will write to them too.

I am not joking. I have researched what goes on in toilets and found the safest design for everyone is a toilet compartment that isn’t completely private. That means a single sex design in a single sex environment.

It’s the safest non domestic design for anyone.

Unfortunately accessible toilets cost a lot and take up a lot of space. They need to be in well monitored places because they are mixed sex and private so open to misuse. My ideal scenario would be to add extra accessible toilets (with door gaps) to the single sex accommodation so non ambulant people could have the benefits of single sex toilets too. This would enable parents with pushchairs to use the extra space so they wouldn’t have to prop the door open to keep an eye on their child/belongings to go to the toilet.
Keeping mixed sex toilets to a minimum is a good idea for safety reasons.

If you carefully read my posts back, you will see I only want everyone to be safe.

TPA doesn't seem to be able to write a post without something completely OTT like 'My God what an utterly ridiculous waste of time.'
'bigoted reflex' 'educate yourself' - it's like TPA is always simmering away in the background and then feels like popping in to Feminism: Sex and gender discussions have a go at somebody, and whoosh!
Unable to just say something without the insults and the drama.

Sometimes it backfires, like suggesting KTS educate herself - about toilets!

I sorry for your experience in a mixed sex toilet that sounds like it is using a single sex cubicle design. This is a good example of why women need single sex toilets.

Toilets are usually uncomfortable but especially so at such times. Surveys say most people are uncomfortable in public toilets (upto 80%) so many avoid them if possible.

The thing is women can’t avoid them due to our biology, unless we are to stay at home. I had been in hospital for a miscarriage and they thought it had finished. I had more of the miscarriage in the loos in a retail park carpark. A woman passed me loads of toilet roll under the partition as I had run out. I felt like passing out but didn’t. This is another good example of why single sex design helps women.

Endometriosis is another condition where women do pass out in toilets.