Trans Rights: The Conjuring Trick at the Toilet Door

[frazzled1]

https://heartlandstribune.com/trans-rights-the-conjuring-trick-at-the-toilet-door/

Great article - capture of the left, trans rights versus women's rights.

The left is supposed to begin with material reality. Bodies. Labour. Class. Wages. Violence. The analysis of women’s oppression that produced the Equality Act, that built the refuges, that fought for the single-sex provisions now being contested, was a materialist analysis. Women are oppressed because they are female. Not because of how they feel about being female. Because of reproduction, sexual vulnerability, male violence, unpaid domestic care, wage inequality and systematic exclusion from public life. The material conditions of being a woman in this world are not a cultural mood. They are a structural fact.

Liberalism, in its contemporary iteration, has made a different set of commitments. It has committed to the proposition that identity is self-determined, that the sincere assertion of an identity creates an obligation on others to affirm it, and that any structure which resists this obligation is oppressive by definition. That is not materialism. It is idealism. It mistakes the declaration for the thing declared. It confuses the map for the territory, the word for the body the word describes.

There is nothing inherently left-wing in that position. It is, in fact, a philosophy that systematically privileges the subjective over the material, the assertion over the evidence, and the feelings of one group over the physical safety of another. On those terms, it is not the left that has adopted a new progressive position. It is the left that has been captured by liberalism and dressed the result in the language of solidarity.

Perhaps first you could tell us whether you think there is any difference at all between men and women. I've asked you several times and you don't seem to have been able to answer this simple question. Is there any difference at all between men and women? If so, what?

Why "difference" without an S? There isn't just one difference. There's a multitude of differences.

Example: autistic girls and boys present different profiles, which leads to girls going undiagnosed for much longer.

Another example: only women have to ask themselves from teenage years on how much they want to let pregnancy impact their career. Men are entirely free of this psychological burden.

Fighting against the glass ceiling is not about denying those differences; it's about countering the idea that those differences justify treating women as inherently less capable than men. Again, "equality can only be achieved through complete interchangeability" is a fallacy.

Uh Uh Uh, CAPACITY.

What is the difference in their natal cognitive & psychological CAPACITY.

And point to the research that isn't about averages.

Are you changing the question now that someone has answered it and you don't like the answer?

And you still haven't answered my question. Is there any difference at all between males and females?

Edited for grammar and to say: That was a reply to @Baileyonice but the quote disappeared.

Can you point to some research which doesn't mention averages?

Whoever said anything about "capacity"? You just added that to a discussion that was never about that.

So you acknowledge there's no difference in capacity?

Why are you changing the question after you've got a reply? That's not how discussions normally work.

Honestly, I have no idea.

More to the point: what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? Let's say there's indeed no difference at all in cognitive and psychological capacity between men and women: now what? How does that impact in any way the fact that there's very much a difference in bodies?

No we acknowledge you are playing mitte and bailey games, you are changing th parameters of your argument mid flow, you are deflecting and generally spouting nonsense in an attempt to hide you've got nothing.

Chess with a pigeon, talking the this one, isn't it?

Why is it, that we still have to argue with people that men and women are different? Different bodies that determine different life experiences. And that those differences impact women’s lives often negatively. Bizarre. I think the TRA on here is simply proving the original point of the article.

Uh uh uh

Are you malfunctioning?

I don't think @Baileyonice has confirmed yet whether they believe that there is a difference between male and female bodies. I've asked several times and got no reply.

If they think that male/man/boy and female/woman/girl are labels which are applied arbitrarily, regardless of anatomy or chromosomes, then talking about differences in their bodies makes no sense.

It is indeed like playing chess with a pigeon.

😂

I'm not sure what you are talking about (and I don't think you know either), but I can tell you that it has no relevance to how and why we distinguish between males and females.

Completely, it always is like this.

He only has word salad and word games, changing parameters etc. He probably thinks he’s clever. It’s about his perception of point scoring rhetoric. He is not interested in discourse or clarity because his beliefs depend on keeping language and meaning blurred and ambiguous at all times.

It just comes across as muddled thinking and lack of clarity of understanding, and lack of precision in language. I mark my students down for this sort of woolly reasoning.

At this point, I'm feeling like they are even being both the chess player and the pigeon for themselves. I mean, if there are no differences in bodies, and also no differences in cognition and psychology, then the very categories of "men" and "women" disappear, and trans people cannot exist. Bailey seems to be doing what TRAs accuse us of wanting to do: erase trans people.

Hear hear!

You forget that it's your lot who believe in fluffy pink ladybrain. NOT gender critical feminists.

Of course he is. They always do.

As soon as you ask why all their new progressive ideas about labelling people by personality have to replace recognition of undeniable fact of sex and its consequences especially for female people instead of just sitting alongside it as another facet in the glorious diversity that is humanity, the whole thing falls apart.

All there really is is abject sexism, misogyny and desire to punch down on women.

(I use "he" here because although I have no idea what type of body he has, he is very much aligned to averagely male commonalities, making him by his own values clearly a man)

Because its relevant to my initial comment that you are responding to:

"Bollocks. Feminism was legitimised by interchangeability. That the sexes overlap both cognitively & psychologically was the justification for equality. There's a reason why apes don't qualify for equal treatment.
The left has long been about equality & self determination not being limited by morphology so its ludicrous to suggest its only materiality that justifies its principles."

I noticed you have problems keeping up with what a thread is about so it my help if read all the comments on it before responding.

You also don't seem to have any historical knowledge or personal experience regarding how women weren't considered as cognitive & psychological equals & how this was/is weaponised against their access to employment, education & decision making. They were (& still are by many) considered as 'the weaker sex' not just because of their bodily limitations but their presumed mental ones.

This is the blind spot for sex realists who don't (or can't) reckon with how ideas influence perceptions & actions that oppress women nor do they understand the implications particularly given there has been a recent renaissance of these ideas that are being popularised by the right to young men. While you people have been obsessively sticking your noses into other peoples genitals the patriarchy has been busy laying their ground work that effectively sex realists enable.

At this point I admit I haven't got a clue what Bailey is trying to say.

He started off with saying that women had ladybrains and men had macho male brains, therefore anyone with a ladybrain is a woman.

Then he switched this round to say that male and female brains are identical.

He has refused throughout to answer whether he believes there is a difference between male and female bodies.

I have no idea what he really thinks.

While you people have been obsessively sticking your noses into peoples genitals

Can you keep your disgusting fantasies to yourself @Baileyonice

I just went back in the thread to find Bailey's comment about ladybrains, but it must have been on another thread. So on one thread he's arguing for the existence of ladybrain and on another against it.

Not only GC people are interested in genitals but, gosh, also in internat organs, and gametes!! And muscle power! Shocking I know 😉