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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender Dysphoria, Embodiment, and the Political Creation of the “Trans Child”

109 replies

woollyhatter · 06/08/2026 19:48

Interesting essay which brings together the many different factors that have got us where we are now and nothing to do with far right funding.
https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2085413745820668010?s=46

OP posts:
Baileyonice · Today 08:17

Clusterfuckular · Today 07:25

'I think of “transgender” as what I call a corralling term.

It corrals a wide variety of unrelated experiences—homosexuality, trauma, gender nonconformity, fetishism, body dissatisfaction, autism, obsessive thinking, childhood confusion—and herds them all through a single gate. Once inside that corral, they receive one explanation and one identity. The individual is branded with a label, and that label becomes the organizing principle of their life.

That, to me, is a profoundly political act.'

You realise they used to rationalise homosexuality in exactly the same way? Oh wait….

Every accusation is a confession.

OldCrone · Today 08:19

Baileyonice · Today 01:00

Stereotypes are expectations based on average differences. What do you think stereotypes are based on? Do you think someone just picked them at random?

Um, the point is trans people aren't saying all people in grouped sexes act a certain way or expect them to. They are simply saying they have more in common with typical group behaviour. Big difference.

The point you are missing is that lots of people have more in common with one group than another. That doesn't make them part of that group.

It does because group membership is dependent on association. Let's not forget the group membership relevant here is common gendered behaviours not sex.

The point about average differences is that they are averages. They don't apply to everyone.

Duh. And the point you are missing is the group membership relevant here is contingent on the association to average behaviours because that is what the group signifies. It makes no claim about all members of either sex complying.

But a boy who likes dolls and kitchen equipment is still a boy, and a girl who likes trucks, blocks and toy soldiers is still a girl.

No one is suggesting sex changes because of an association to average gendered behaviours only gender if an individual identifies with the average opposite sexed behaviours.

You, along with the authors of this article, seem to want to take us back in time to when girls were told that they weren't good at things like maths and they should go back to being pretty little things who should just search for a husband and produce children. And, of course that men should all be macho and not show any emotions or feelings.

You don't seem to understand the difference between averages & individuals.

They are simply saying they have more in common with typical group behaviour.

So what? Why is it so important to you to divide people into arbitrary boxes like this? Why can't people just be individuals with individual interests and behaviours? This is just what most of us would call personality, but for you it seems important to classify people by personality type. Why? What is your aim in doing this?

It does because group membership is dependent on association. Let's not forget the group membership relevant here is common gendered behaviours not sex.

So your invented group is one of people who share "common gendered behaviours", but could be of either sex. Can you explain what the purpose is of such a grouping? Like most people, my interests and behaviours span those typical of both sexes. So for example, am I in the male (masculine?) group because I have an engineering degree or the female (feminine?) group because I like sewing?

What are the exact criteria for membership of the female/feminine or male/masculine groups?

You don't seem to understand the difference between averages & individuals.

Of course I understand the difference between averages and individuals. What I don't understand is why you seem to need to label people who stray from the average as somehow abnormal.

OldCrone · Today 08:30

Baileyonice · Today 08:13

Straw man. No one is suggesting trans people change sex. The clue is in the name 'trans gender'.

What is the point of gender?

OldCrone · Today 08:32

Baileyonice · Today 08:13

Sex & gender aren't the same thing.

No, they're not.

Sex is real. Gender is made-up nonsense.

BunnyBunbunbun · Today 08:43

Baileyonice · Today 08:17

You realise they used to rationalise homosexuality in exactly the same way? Oh wait….

Every accusation is a confession.

Did they? When was that? And so what?

Homosexuality is simply a sexuality. Imagining you are the opposite sex and a wish to damage one's healthy body parts implies a disconnection from one's body or distress of some kind that is invariably a symptom of various mental health issues.

You don't need to go to a doctor if you're gay, but apparently you do if you're labelled a "trans child".

Coatsoff42 · Today 08:44

Commonalities bleurgh, what if I like custard creams, daytime TV, frank Sinatra and have urinary incontinence, does that make me an elderly person? Should I be allowed to live in a social services paid nursing home and get a lovely pension rather than go out to work?

NotBadConsidering · Today 08:59

Coatsoff42 · Today 08:44

Commonalities bleurgh, what if I like custard creams, daytime TV, frank Sinatra and have urinary incontinence, does that make me an elderly person? Should I be allowed to live in a social services paid nursing home and get a lovely pension rather than go out to work?

daytime TV

If you like Murder, She Wrote you’re a woman and if you like Quincy M.E. you’re a man.

Baileyonice · Today 09:01

OldCrone · Today 08:19

They are simply saying they have more in common with typical group behaviour.

So what? Why is it so important to you to divide people into arbitrary boxes like this? Why can't people just be individuals with individual interests and behaviours? This is just what most of us would call personality, but for you it seems important to classify people by personality type. Why? What is your aim in doing this?

It does because group membership is dependent on association. Let's not forget the group membership relevant here is common gendered behaviours not sex.

So your invented group is one of people who share "common gendered behaviours", but could be of either sex. Can you explain what the purpose is of such a grouping? Like most people, my interests and behaviours span those typical of both sexes. So for example, am I in the male (masculine?) group because I have an engineering degree or the female (feminine?) group because I like sewing?

What are the exact criteria for membership of the female/feminine or male/masculine groups?

You don't seem to understand the difference between averages & individuals.

Of course I understand the difference between averages and individuals. What I don't understand is why you seem to need to label people who stray from the average as somehow abnormal.

So what? Why is it so important to you to divide people into arbitrary boxes like this? Why can't people just be individuals with individual interests and behaviours? This is just what most of us would call personality, but for you it seems important to classify people by personality type. Why? What is your aim in doing this?

Aren't you doing the same thing by harping on about sexed groups?

So your invented group is one of people who share "common gendered behaviours", but could be of either sex.

Typical behaviours are not 'invented' they are a fact of reality just like reproductive sex is.

Can you explain what the purpose is of such a grouping? Like most people, my interests and behaviours span those typical of both sexes. So for example, am I in the male (masculine?) group because I have an engineering degree or the female (feminine?) group because I like sewing?

Welcome to non binary identification. The purpose is just like any other group classification based on associations: Humans categorise phenomena to achieve cognitive shortcuts: Your brain receives millions of signals every second. Grouping similar things together stops you from getting overwhelmed and reduces memory load.

What are the exact criteria for membership of the female/feminine or male/masculine groups?

There isn't any because self identification is personally subjective pursuit that's based off values & beliefs.

Of course I understand the difference between averages and individuals. What I don't understand is why you seem to need to label people who stray from the average as somehow abnormal.

That view maybe more a function of personal insecurity rather than having any relation to reality. Stating Averages exist & more people associate with them is a fact not a moral judgement.

Baileyonice · Today 09:02

OldCrone · Today 08:30

What is the point of gender?

I imagine its an evolutionary adaption.

Baileyonice · Today 09:04

BunnyBunbunbun · Today 08:43

Did they? When was that? And so what?

Homosexuality is simply a sexuality. Imagining you are the opposite sex and a wish to damage one's healthy body parts implies a disconnection from one's body or distress of some kind that is invariably a symptom of various mental health issues.

You don't need to go to a doctor if you're gay, but apparently you do if you're labelled a "trans child".

hall of fame game missed the point GIF
Baileyonice · Today 09:05

Coatsoff42 · Today 08:44

Commonalities bleurgh, what if I like custard creams, daytime TV, frank Sinatra and have urinary incontinence, does that make me an elderly person? Should I be allowed to live in a social services paid nursing home and get a lovely pension rather than go out to work?

You are making the categorical error of conflating identity with rights.

Clusterfuckular · Today 09:08

Baileyonice · Today 08:17

You realise they used to rationalise homosexuality in exactly the same way? Oh wait….

Every accusation is a confession.

Look, your response here is not even slightly connected to the quote I posted. This is just shit-posting, the equivalent of hair pulling to get attention. I'm not engaging further.

Baileyonice · Today 09:10

Clusterfuckular · Today 09:08

Look, your response here is not even slightly connected to the quote I posted. This is just shit-posting, the equivalent of hair pulling to get attention. I'm not engaging further.

It certainly may appear to those incapable of comprehending BASIC LOGIC.

Seethlaw · Today 09:36

Baileyonice · Today 00:08

Like religion or political beliefs?

You walked into that one.

Indeed, exactly like that. Religion and politics are subjective beliefs with no basis in material reality, and so is the belief in the non-existent gender identity. Knock yourself out all you want believing in it, but don't expect other people to believe in it as well.

OldCrone · Today 09:42

Baileyonice · Today 09:05

You are making the categorical error of conflating identity with rights.

At last something we can agree on. Anyone can identify as anything they want, but that doesn't give them the rights of the group they identify with.

So no men in women's spaces.

OldCrone · Today 09:44

Baileyonice · Today 09:02

I imagine its an evolutionary adaption.

Ah ok. Sterilising kids is good for an overpopulated planet. Is that what you mean?

Seethlaw · Today 09:48

Baileyonice · Today 09:02

I imagine its an evolutionary adaption.

An adaptation to... what? What could possibly be the evolutionary pressure to which developing a so-called gender identity would be an adaptation?

Theeyeballsinthesky · Today 09:54

is a being a repetitive tedious brainless poster with nothing better to do than spout utter bollocks at women a masculine trait 🤔🤔

Helleofabore · Today 10:07

Baileyonice · Today 05:48

Oh yes you did. YOU said only material reality was meaningful and thereby deserved to be treated accordingly.

Do you even understand the implication of your own words?

And why should others treat self identification as being meaningful and as being something that is materially real if it has no basis in material reality only subjective reality?

What part of religious belief is being treated as if it is ‘material reality’ again? It is materially real that a person holds that belief and that is meaningful. I have freind’s brother who announced to everyone he is Jesus Christ, he is not, and no one was under any obligation to treat his subjective belief of his own self identity as if it was materially real. However, it was material reality that he held the belief.

So no. Your ‘gotcha’ fails.

Baileyonice · Today 10:18

Helleofabore · Today 10:07

And why should others treat self identification as being meaningful and as being something that is materially real if it has no basis in material reality only subjective reality?

What part of religious belief is being treated as if it is ‘material reality’ again? It is materially real that a person holds that belief and that is meaningful. I have freind’s brother who announced to everyone he is Jesus Christ, he is not, and no one was under any obligation to treat his subjective belief of his own self identity as if it was materially real. However, it was material reality that he held the belief.

So no. Your ‘gotcha’ fails.

There's this thing called 'anti discrimination laws' and they apply to religious beliefs. So no, material reality is not boss when it comes to the law.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Today 10:24

Baileyonice · Today 01:37

There's this thing called 'proportionality' in law.

what proportion of the baby gets gestated inside the father?

Helleofabore · Today 10:24

Baileyonice · Today 10:18

There's this thing called 'anti discrimination laws' and they apply to religious beliefs. So no, material reality is not boss when it comes to the law.

And again you missed the point being made.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Today 10:30

Baileyonice · Today 08:11

I already did upthread with a link to sexed behaviours. Try & keep up.

I read that article.

The example of masculine behaviours it have were e.g. preferring toy cars to dolls as a child

someone has already asked you if a boy who plays with dolls is automatically a girl. I think (you are quite hard to understand), you said no

in which case, no, this article did not give example of definitive masculine and feminine behaviours that you think should determine whether we accept that someone is a member of the opposite sex

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Today 10:31

Baileyonice · Today 08:13

Straw man. No one is suggesting trans people change sex. The clue is in the name 'trans gender'.

grand

men with a lady gender can stay out of women's single sex spaces then

simple

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Today 10:34

Baileyonice · Today 09:05

You are making the categorical error of conflating identity with rights.

grand

in which case just because a chap has a lady identity, he has no right to access women's single sex spaces

it feels like you're agreeing with me...

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