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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

They gave me to someone who could not read or write … it would be better if you buried me alive - [article in Guardian, TW abuse]

83 replies

GingerBeverage · 05/08/2026 11:47

Posting the start but it's really worth reading the whole letter.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/aug/05/taliban-afghanistan-shabnam-story-her-stage

On my last day of school it seemed years of effort were now contained in one small piece of paper. Everyone was happy at graduation, holding our certificates, each of us had a different road ahead. Friends wanted to study medicine, civil engineering or economics. For me, I wanted aviation – to be a pilot.
We worked hard, preparing for Kankor – the university entry exam – then came the first delay. Coronavirus reached Afghanistan. Everywhere went into quarantine, our exams were postponed.
Eventually, I got into university. On my first day I told myself, “Shabnam, finally, your efforts were not wasted.” The smile would not leave my face.
I worked hard. At the end of the first year, I was the top student in my class of 120 from all 34 provinces of Afghanistan. My father was so proud of me. But my mother said, “My daughter, do not be so happy, someone may cast an evil eye on your happiness.” I wish I had listened.
My mother used to tell stories about the Taliban and say we were left behind from education. Then, in my second year, the Taliban took Afghanistan again. It was goodbye to the university and to our books. A university that would never open again for us. I wished that they had taken our lives instead.
With a thousand miseries, we returned home. I told my mother, “You were right. I wish I had not been so happy.” I did not know that worse lay ahead.
The Taliban said no girl over the age of 15 should remain unmarried. Girls were being forced into engagement. Either the Taliban would marry the girls themselves or the father had to find someone for his daughter.
They gave me to someone who had no education and could not read or write. Crying became all I did day and night.
I told my mother, “It would be better if you buried me alive.” The groom’s family wanted to take me to their home. If I did not accept, the Taliban would detain my father.

They gave me to someone who could not read or write … it would be better if you buried me alive

I was the top student in my university class but when the Taliban took Afghanistan again I was forced to marry and my dreams of being a pilot ended

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/aug/05/taliban-afghanistan-shabnam-story-her-stage

OP posts:
MoistVonL · 05/08/2026 13:32

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 13:00

That is the issue Gengha,

We cant draw the line in someone else's country, not even in someone else's household.

Oh yes we can. Indeed, we should.

When our sisters in Afghanistan and Iran are terrorised, denied autonomy, denied education and freedom and forced into child marriages, we absolutely must speak up, message our MPs, support those charities getting women out.

Feminism means caring about the rights and freedoms of all women, not just those you share cultural values with.

Mingou · 05/08/2026 13:34

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 12:12

I disagree with child marriage for sure, but we cant judge another culture by our standards.

Why not?

user1471538275 · 05/08/2026 13:35

Well if that household is within the UK, then yes we most certainly can.

Are you @BornToBeWithThisUsername saying that we should accept abusive cultural practices in this country?

It might be difficult to achieve, but there are many womens' groups working very hard to ensure women whose culture is oppressive to them are aware of their rights and to try and help them escape violence in their households.

But hey, we should just accept that beating your wife is cultural eh?

ChequerToRed · 05/08/2026 13:35

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 11:58

Different cultures do different things, simple as that.

Ah, the racism of low expectations.

OtterlyAstounding · 05/08/2026 13:39

God, that article is heartbreaking. I'm so angry for the women of Afghanistan – an entire country of women treated as less than animals by their fathers, brothers, husbands, and sons, and the entire world just stands by uselessly.

It makes me feel dreadfully omnicidal.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/08/2026 13:40

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 13:00

That is the issue Gengha,

We cant draw the line in someone else's country, not even in someone else's household.

Nonsense, there’s a whole swathe of public protection laws that allow for state involvement in family life.

NotAtMyAge · 05/08/2026 13:41

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 12:25

The Taliban way of doing things is not just going on in Afghanistan, trust me.

So everyone should stop discussing it and just accept it? 🙄The author of this article was born into a society which allowed her to go to university and have ambitions for her future. She certainly doesn't agree with it. If everyone took your attitude, nothing would ever improve.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/08/2026 13:42

ChequerToRed · 05/08/2026 13:35

Ah, the racism of low expectations.

And the privilege of growing up in a culture that doesn’t practice FFM or forced marriage.

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 13:42

America tried to turn this situation around. They failed, not only that, they retreated leaving the Taliban fully armed with American arms. If anything trying to make a change has made the situation worse over there.

WerewolfOfLoudon · 05/08/2026 13:45

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 11:58

Different cultures do different things, simple as that.

Her culture wasn't no education and forced marriage. Her father was proud of her. An extremist regime was enforced on her family. Not the same thing in the slightest.

oldtiredcyclist · 05/08/2026 13:45

Hoardasurass · 05/08/2026 13:19

Yes we can and should especially when that culture regards all females as nothing more than chattel.
Women and girls are not property to be bought and sold, denied an education or rights and even bodily autonomy.
When a culture is based around committing crimes against humanity towards 51% of their population it is a culture that needs eradicating

I totally agree, my wife was born in Tehran and we married in 1990. She has told me about the living conditions for young girls in the villages in Eastern Iran, which border Afghanistan and Pakistan, who face the same constraints placed on them by fundamentalist Islam, which is of course controlled by men. These girls face forced marriages, very often when they are extremely young, no access to education. It is heartbreaking to read about it, but the rest of the World is now powerless to do anything about it.

NotAtMyAge · 05/08/2026 13:46

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 13:00

That is the issue Gengha,

We cant draw the line in someone else's country, not even in someone else's household.

Once South Africa had racial segregation known as apartheid. It no longer exists because more enlightened countries imposed varying sanctions until the South African government's position became untenable.

As for your nonsensical comment about someone else's household there are laws against domestic abuse and child abuse which are society's way of drawing the line.

WerewolfOfLoudon · 05/08/2026 13:49

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 12:12

I disagree with child marriage for sure, but we cant judge another culture by our standards.

Do you support the culture that is enforcing Sharia Law in our country? Men raping little girls because their culture says they can.

ginasevern · 05/08/2026 13:56

@Sunnytraces "If it was cultural it would stick same way even under different leaderships. They didn't have it before taliban, nor between taliban."

You're joking aren't you. Child marriage is an ingrained part of Afghan culture and has been for centuries. In fact it has always had one of the highest rates of female child marriage in the world.

Sunnytraces · 05/08/2026 13:59

ginasevern · 05/08/2026 13:56

@Sunnytraces "If it was cultural it would stick same way even under different leaderships. They didn't have it before taliban, nor between taliban."

You're joking aren't you. Child marriage is an ingrained part of Afghan culture and has been for centuries. In fact it has always had one of the highest rates of female child marriage in the world.

This is not just about child marriage though is it. Pre Taliban women were going to uni alongside men, held jobs etc.

Grammarnut · 05/08/2026 14:00

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/08/2026 12:06

I don’t think you can write off forced marriage as a cultural difference.

Arranged marriages are what happens in most places apart from what we call 'the West' and the idea of the companionate marriage is not widely accepted either. The difference with what is happening in Afghanistan - and many other countries under Islamic rule such as the Taliban's - is that 'arranged marriage' as it has evolved over the last couple of centuries (mainly because of contact with societies which have ceased to arrange marriages - all cultures originally arranged marriage btw) takes into consideration the compatibility of the couple and allows them to know each other, but this is not happening in Afghanistan. Hindus mostly arrange their marriages, but do it within a system of social contact where young people meet and a 'suitable boy' or girl is suggested. Education is a plus in the 'marriage market' as well, unlike Afghanistan.

Grammarnut · 05/08/2026 14:15

Sunnytraces · 05/08/2026 13:59

This is not just about child marriage though is it. Pre Taliban women were going to uni alongside men, held jobs etc.

Some women went to university. In rural areas there is more interest in having health care than in education. That the Taliban have ended this - and prevented women from entering health care roles whilst saying women cannot be treated by men - is causing more anger, but it is directed at the US, which has cut aid. The problem with the US occupation was that it promoted an urban elite without a hearts and minds operation directed towards the rural poor and those of middling incomes. To the extent that the US had not managed to put across more liberal values is one reason the Taliban took over so easily. The other was that the US (as in their attack on Cuba) seemed to be promoting those who were gangsters from the point of view of a lot of the population and the Taliban were seen as more trustworthy. Turns out they were not and that they are as likely to demand bribes as their predecessors.
The woman writing the letter appears to have a peculiar father. He was proud of her educational success but chose an illiterate husband? That's very odd - unless the Taliban chose the husband, which may be the case: 'they gave me to'... somewhat suggests this.

Bakeittillyoumakeit · 05/08/2026 14:21

ginasevern · 05/08/2026 13:56

@Sunnytraces "If it was cultural it would stick same way even under different leaderships. They didn't have it before taliban, nor between taliban."

You're joking aren't you. Child marriage is an ingrained part of Afghan culture and has been for centuries. In fact it has always had one of the highest rates of female child marriage in the world.

Child marriage isn't an ingrained part of Afghan culture, pre Taliban it was mainly done due to extreme poverty and debt.

Pre Taliban there were sadly a long list of countries (at least 20) with worse rates of child marriage than Afghanistan across Sub-Saharan Africa and parts of South and Central America.

It's all so sad OP. We can't even begin to imagine what life is like there.

SomethingFun · 05/08/2026 14:23

I think the taliban chose the husband not the dad. The fact that her illiterate husband tried to get her out of Afghanistan and her father enabled to her educated when that was legal shows that not all men benefit and uphold from taliban rule but all are fearful for their lives. That she needs £20 to get a loan to start a sweets business is heartbreaking - can we help the women of Afghanistan directly?

There are plenty of men that would love to see Western European women back as chattel so I wouldn’t be resting on my laurels tbh, cultural differences my arse.

Grammarnut · 05/08/2026 14:30

Hoardasurass · 05/08/2026 13:19

Yes we can and should especially when that culture regards all females as nothing more than chattel.
Women and girls are not property to be bought and sold, denied an education or rights and even bodily autonomy.
When a culture is based around committing crimes against humanity towards 51% of their population it is a culture that needs eradicating

Immediately you suggest this you will run into accusations of colonialism, white saviourism and imposing Western ideas on cultures that do not agree with them. The British tried to eradicate some of these practices and look where it got them: apparently they invented slavery (they stopped it), trashed other people's countries and cultures and stole their stuff, interfered with other people's way of life etc.
A country must save itself - if it won't then if there is an option to leave then take it and go somewhere more civilized.
Cultural relativism does not allow us to judge other cultures by our standards (because our standards are not theirs and our standards are bad) and if you dare say that not all cultures are equal you are branded a racist bigot.

EarthSight · 05/08/2026 14:31

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 12:12

I disagree with child marriage for sure, but we cant judge another culture by our standards.

I think in this case we can.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2026 14:32

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 12:12

I disagree with child marriage for sure, but we cant judge another culture by our standards.

Look at me judging. Turns out you can!

GingerBeverage · 05/08/2026 14:35

IrnBruAndDietCoke · 05/08/2026 12:47

The MRAs are out in force today. This is the fourth thread I’ve seen started or taken over by them. I’d suggest people don’t feed anyone outside their immediate family, what with the cost of food these days.

I'm not an MRA and don't see how posting this horrendous first person account from an abused young woman could possibly be construed as such.

Do not troll hunt me.

OP posts:
GingerBeverage · 05/08/2026 14:36

Bakeittillyoumakeit · 05/08/2026 14:21

Child marriage isn't an ingrained part of Afghan culture, pre Taliban it was mainly done due to extreme poverty and debt.

Pre Taliban there were sadly a long list of countries (at least 20) with worse rates of child marriage than Afghanistan across Sub-Saharan Africa and parts of South and Central America.

It's all so sad OP. We can't even begin to imagine what life is like there.

https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/en/

Globally, 12 million girls are married before 18 each year.

OP posts:
PickAChew · 05/08/2026 14:38

BornToBeWithThisUsername · 05/08/2026 12:12

I disagree with child marriage for sure, but we cant judge another culture by our standards.

The author isn't happy with this culture by her own standards, FFS.