Jalsa Salana, a huge men only festival in the UK.

[Imdunfer]

This huge Muslim Festival, 50,000 attendees from 100 countries, happened over the weekend in Hampshire. If previous years are anything to go by you will be hard put to find a single woman in any of the photographs. That's because the men and the women meet separately. The women and men are segregated. The women are excluded from taking part with the men, they have a separate conference, they aren't even sat at the back of the men's one.

I honestly never thought I'd be living in a country where women were so excluded from a public gathering of 50,000 people.

I never thought I'd be living in a country where this event will go without criticism and probably actually be praised and celebrated. "MPs, bishops and other public figures are expected to attend." and not one of them, and probably no other prominent public figure either, will comment on this segregation.

It's 2026, how on earth is this country going backwards so far in the treatment of women that this is now perceived to be mainstream and acceptable?

www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/25/uk-largest-muslim-event-jalsa-salana-security-anti-muslim-hate-crime#:~:text=Now%20in%20its%2060th%20year,site%20in%20Hampshire%20this%20weekend.

I have. Its not a public event. It's a religious event. Women, children and men are there. Some of the activities are segregated by sex.

I had a look to see what the women at this conference thought and found this. The author quotes the Khalifa of the time.

During an interview to the German press in 2019, His Holiness Mirza Masroor Ahmad, the current and fifth Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (may Allah be his Helper) said: ‘my philosophy is that if women work outside the shade of men, they flourish.’

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.

https://voiceofbritishmuslimwomen.co.uk/2024/07/21/how-jalsa-empowers-women/

This.

If we'd been clearer about this we'd not have had the Pakistani rape gangs or the children sexually abused by Catholic priests.

Bad use of grammar perhaps but by public I meant held in a public place.

Do you think that statement you've quoted says more than the physical act of excluding women from all the men's meetings?

All religions are full of platitudinous statements that don't actually reflect their actions.

One of the strongest messages I've taken out of this thread is that this particular sect of Islam is very moderate. That's been used as a reason that the meeting shouldn't be criticised.

But for me it's even more reason to criticise, that even one of the most moderate sects of Islam acts in ways that are completely at odds with British culture, and holds a big international meeting on British soil inviting people from around the world to perpetuate that culture.

What a dreadful message to send to young Moslem women in this country.

Can I ask, out of interest, why @Imdunfer you use the word ‘moslem’ rather than the internationally accepted ‘muslim’. I have not seen it in print for decades [and even then only really early 20th century colonial lit, such as Kipling and his peers], as it became outdated in the mid20th century. Scholars, journalists, government documents, and Muslims, themselves, have not used this spelling for more than fifty years - it feels somewhat pointed?

It's what swype gave me, I didn't know there was an internationally accepted spelling, I will use it in future. There was no ulterior motive and I apologise if anyone has been offended. I will ask MN to change the spelling.

A Muslim friend once told me that men and women are segregated because men deal with matters of the outside world, and women are in charge of the household. So that gathering is probably discussing worldly matters (not just the religion) that have an affect on women’s lives but they get no voice because they’re at home doing the housework and looking after the kids.

I think it is a feminist issue to flag up these inequalities within an increasingly powerful faction within the UK. Saying it’s islamaphobia or bigotry is the very tactic of suppressing inconvenient truths.

Ah, that was why I asked as I fear some PPs may have made inferences.

Am glad it was not your intention - as we know from FWR fora words do matter and whilst I am really sorry if it felt as though I was policing your language, that wasn’t my intention either. It just jarred a little.

:)

You must be beside yourself with joy, then!

No I'm really pleased you pointed out of to me. I read Kipling and it's as racist as hell but I had no idea about the spelling, my mistake.

Darn, they've withdrawn the whole message. It was important I'll ask them to put it back.

So now it's back with the original spelling. I am deeply sorry if this offends anyone, I've done my best to get it changed.

Perhaps repost with correct spelling and then ask them to delete? So silly that they can’t just edit it for you!

Advance apologies for not reading the whole thread - I can see it's getting all shouty and this topic can never reach a consensus, due to strength of religious feelings. For the same reason, I never contribute to such threads. So, fwiw, I do have opinions on the matter and here they are.

1. Yes, I think it's wrong that women have to worship behind a wall at the mosque. They aren't even allowed into the main area at many mosques, wall or no. Women participating in religious services should be able to do so freely on the same basis as men.
2. A convention for Muslims that is about the practice and future of Islam should include Muslim women freely and on the same basis as men.
3. A conference of Muslim women about being a woman in Islam should be all women.
4. A conference of Muslim men about male roles in Islam should be all men.
5. I read all about the damn fun run, looking for reasonable justifications, but there was only discrimination. A mass jog is not a deep same-sex bonding experience or a debate on the state of that sex. I got the impression the organiser had simply defaulted to male-only, then couldn't back down without losing face.
6. The Catholic church should accept female priests. I think it will do before much longer. Female imams: should but it's unlikely to happen this century..

For those wondering why the 21,630 women attendees couldn't be physically present at the flag ceremony and had to hear the addresses through a live relay from another part of the site, the answer is both simple and profound. A flower may never behold the gardener who patiently waters and nurtures it until it blossoms, yet its very existence depends upon that unseen care. Likewise, the believer’s spiritual growth is nurtured through obedience, prayer and attachment

Oh, okay, then, that's profoundly simple ... Women are flowers. The leaders are gardeners. Men are watering cans? 🙄😂

Sounds like a poetic way to do women down to me!

Innit.

Yes it’s about infantilising women as being weak and needing to be looked after. And men having the dominance and intellectual superiority.

Despite the fact that women can be intellectually equal and in most cultures do the unsung donkey work and are more psychologically resilient.

🙄

Benevolent misogyny, really, isn’t it? If we dress up women’s oppression as love and protection, then no one will notice or be allowed to push back. 🤦🏽‍♀️

My supposedly liberal dad took me to one side when I was 11 (puberty had started, I looked 14/15) and explained that as a young woman I could no longer dress and play as a child anymore. That shorts, and swimwear, and form revealing clothes were no longer for me because I needed to safeguard myself and my body. All lovely and protective, until it was explained that it was my job to ensure men were not sexually aroused by my presence because they cannot control lustful thoughts in the face of women’s sexed bodies [or, rather, 12 years olds in fitted jeans and bay city rollers teeshirts…]

I think we're going to have to get used to a lot more of this in future, as the Muslim community grows in size and influence, both in the UK and across Europe.

It's quite cringy listening to progressives squirming around trying to justify it.

So, I think I may actually be moving towards a totalitarian position on this, which is rather alarming. I may have to get myself a gin & tonic and go and watch the animation channel in a minute … or give my head a wobble. So forgive me if I am sounding out here.

On many levels I do believe we should make it near impossible for extreme faiths to be practiced in this way in the UK. Face coverings should be banned in all public spaces, burqua/Nijab etc should be banned in schools (even private faith based schools, which I also think should be heavily regulated and monitored), sex segregation in places of worship should be banned (though I have no problem with men-only or women-only prayer sessions as this is not dissimilar to a women only knitting club, the WI etc, so long as main communion worship is both-sex inclusive). Prayer of any faith should be banned in civic buildings and ceremonies, and religious festivals should not be permitted in public spaces (Trafalgar Square) unless they are sex-inclusive. I am not sure, on this basis that royal weddings (the in-church/cathedral portion] should be televised either as it condones Christianity specifically when the King is purportedly the defender of the ‘Faiths’.

I have absolutely no issues with people having or practicing their faiths and gathering to do so in their homes and places of worship, the latter being fine so long as both sexes have equal access and rights. But I do think that society needs not to be so inclusive as to stand and cheer on the sidelines of large city spaces while the men gather and perhaps a few token women are lumbered with serving food at stands around the periphery. Similarly I have no issue with people having weird sexual fetishes so long as they perform them with consenting adult partners in private. People have a human right to live as they wish within their private domaine, whether that is about beliefs, faith, politics or sexual preferences. At home - rock on.

I also do not say ‘they should go back where they came from’ if they want to preserve their culture rather than integrate and embrace ours, because obviously you have refugees, legal immigrants, and 2nd and 3rd generation children of those who are as British as the next person. However, if the practicing of that faith and a preservation of the culture that is attendant to it is so very very important, then there are plenty of countries around the world where a person can chose to live and do so.

I am actually a naturalised Brit [it’s a long story, but in effect I was an illegal immigrant who overstayed the visa granted to my mother when I was an infant and was brought into the UK, so I had to apply for permanent leave to remain when we discovered this at 22, and opted to be naturalised some years later]. I had to make an oath of allegiance to the monarch and all her her descendants, but also had to pledge to ‘support the United Kingdom, respecting its rights, freedoms, and democratic values while obeying its laws.’

This latter makes it difficult to understand why legal rights of women are so blatantly disregarded by this demographic. For instance, it is thought that 60-61% of so-called muslim wives, those who have been bound in marriage via religious ceremony, do NOT have a parallel UK marital status granted by a civil ceremony. So, under UK law islamic ceremonies are supposed to only be carried out once a civil ceremony has taken place and paper work is [supposedly] required to evidence this. As a result 60% of women in this community have no property rights, no ability to flee abusive households and take their children with them, nor are they entitled to any of the financial support usually attendant in a divorce. Frankly, this is horrifying.

Didn't you know that before you started the thread?

'sex segregation in places of worship should be banned'

Why?

FWIW, I think looking at sexism/misogyny within Islam - and all religions - is a valid endeavour.

I'm not convinced that sex segregation for worship is the main problem.

Im not squirming. I am a woman with a religion. I agree with what @AnonyMumAuDHD said here:

* - it’s effectively a pop-up, mass Mosque. I may hate the segregation, but they have the right to practice their faith on private premises as they deem fit. There will be women who are oppressed and may not wish to be there - but this needs to be tackled at community level. As a society we need to make sure that women in the muslim community who are there under duress, victims of domestic abuse or subjugated by imposition of sharia law within their community, are protected and offered routes out. We need communities, the police, the law and refuges to connect with these women and let them now there are alternatives.

What's being pushed on this thread is Great White Saviour bullshit. Or maybe its just, as a PP said, racism masking as women's rights.