Don't release violent male offenders, repurpose women's prisons for them instead

[CohensDiamondTeeth]

Article in the Telegraph.

Instead lets release women from prison instead, and repurpose their prisons to house the men.

It sounds like an excellent idea to me!

Repurpose women’s prisons for men, campaigners tell Andy Burnham

TheignT seems to be very strongly invested in there being no differences at all between the typical behaviour of males and females.
To the point of trying quite hard to misread and misinterpret every comment. Why so touchy about this?

Why do people keep making things up. I haven't said there's no difference in typical behaviour. What I have said is if (get that if it is significant) they've done the same crime they should be treated the same. Seems a very simple concept but beyond some people.

The patronising tone does you no favours.

Two things:

(i) imprisonment isn't, first and foremost, about fairness. It's about keeping the rest of us safe, mainly from violent crime. Men, as a class, are more dangerous than women. Therefore, we should lock men up before we do women.

(ii) two apparently-identical crimes are rarely the same. Where a woman commits a crime, there is usually a man behind the scenes, controlling, encouraging, and/or abusing them. In those situations, the best thing is not to lock the woman up, but to remove the man from the situation (imprisonment or whatever else) and provide the woman with support to get on with her life.

Well having to explain the same thing over and over and being told I've said things I haven't justified a bit of patronising.

So you think releasing a woman who has been locked up for not paying council tax means she's safe but a man who has done the same is dangerous. That's prisoners who have done the same thing. So tell me if a woman is released for that sort of crime why wouldn't you release a man who'd done he same? With the advantage he'd actually free up a space for a man?

You can't justify it so you'll start about women not being violent (some are) and men being violent (some aren't.).

On a thread where we are challenged about Rose West being dangerous I suppose we can't expect more.

You've been told why sex has relevance here a number of times already.

You keep saying you don't believe sex is relevant, and seem like you'd rather not answer the question I actually asked.

I didn't think it was a particularly hard question I must have been wrong.

I agree. It cant be beyond the wit of intelligent civil servants to come up with more creative punishments!

I can't be bothered with this. the grown ups were having a useful conversation, I thought

but for the record, I don't think anyone should be in prison for not paying their council tax.

no-one's said that women aren't violent and men are. However as a class men are much, much more violent than women.

And Fred/Rose West - no, actually, I really can't be arsed. Something about pigeons shitting everywhere.

Surely there is common ground here.

Men commit crime.
Women commit crime.
Most people would expect prison to be reserved for the most serious crimes, which would include sexual offences and violent offences. This is because of the danger these offenders present to the rest of us, and also to reflect the damage they have done. There's also the deterrent effect.
Statistics show that almost all sexual crime is committed by men. The number of men imprisoned for sexual offences in the UK is higher than the number of women imprisoned for every offence.
Statistics also show that most violent crime is committed by men. Also, because men are usually taller and stronger than women the damage they inflict is likely to be worse.

So, given all of that, there are far fewer prison places for women.

The early release scheme should apply to both sexes, but because women's offending patterns are different and the total number of women in prison is so low, the number of prison places this will free up is not going to be very high. Drop in the ocean, so not going to solve the problem of overcrowding in male prisons.

Can we all agree on the above?

I agree with your post @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

No you haven't answered my question. Forget sex for a minute, prisoner A failed to pay court fines, in prison for six months. Due to overcrowding released after two months. Prisoner B failed to pay court fines and in prison for six months. Overcrowding but not released early as they are a B. That doesn't seem fair does it

Now think A is male and B is female and now is it fair that A gets released early because he's male. That doesnt seem fair.

Now reverse the sexes and A gets released early because she's female but B isn't. You say that's fair. Why?

.

"the early release scheme should apply to both sexes". Well that's what I've been saying and bizarrely Cohensdiamondteeth suddenly agrees with it.

Patronising much?

@TheignT yes I did, see attached.

And your new post puts words in my mouth I have not said, and uses a new scenario you have just come up with.

Either you don't just don't understand what I'm saying, or you're wilfully misreading my posts and are on the wind up. Either way, I'm getting fed up of going back and forth with you on this.

I don't know if anyone goes to prison for not paying council tax, I was using something that men and women could both do and you couldn't start banging on about violence.

I've never not agreed with that simple position, it should apply to both sexes, obviously.

Do you think if a man gets locked up for one of those things that a woman gets locked up for her should be treated the same?

Once again I'm asking you where I said violent male prisoners should get released rather than non violent women? You can't because I didn't say it. So are you lying or confused?

OMG that's what I've said and you kept disagreeing.

They're wilfully misreading, @CohensDiamondTeeth . They've done it with a few of my posts too. I'm not bothering as they've completely banjaxed the thread.

Yep.

they don't. I did go into some detail on the stats a few comments earlier...

Thank you for your post, @SingleSexSpacesInSchools.

Actually NOONE (male or female) is imprisoned for non payment of council tax. It’s a civil debt, not a criminal one and therefore cannot be addressed for this reason. In theory a magistrate CAN sentence someone to 3m for wilful non-payment, but clearly they never do.

Apparently only 0-2 people per year end up in prison as a result of nonpayment of TV licence fines (Ministry of Justice data).

So all of this is a bit of a distraction to the core discussion.

70% of women have sentences of less than 12m; over 50% for less than 6m indicating that these are relatively minor offences (shop lifting, petty theft) and better addressed with ankle tags and community service. Men should not be in the estate for those same level of crimes, either, imho opinion and could equally be ankle tagged, given community service, or supported in returning to work/job training.

Prison should be about a) the containment and rehabilitation of serious offenders and b) about removing from society those who presents a longer-term and continued danger to it. Life sentences for murder/multiple murder/gang rape and organised crime… should mean life.