Vulva Only Spaces

[Lurkingandlearning]

Is this what we need to be asking for now?

That wouldn't exclude people who had transitioned. But it would exclude people who have a penis. Surely when people had transitioned and have a vulva instead of a penis they would feel exactly the same way, as women.

Well, true. I will take that accusation on the chin 🙂.

A lot of schools are finishing this week. Universities finished a little while back, but the tone of this poster is more adolescent with half-baked arguments, copy-and-paste, goad and wind up then pretend they didn't.

I understand where you’re coming from then but it’s just not what women want. They don’t want to have any biological man in with them, even if there is minimal risk. I think trying to compromise with this is just making things worse because nobody is getting what they want. The 3rd space is really the only option I can see working. Trans people and anyone else who is willing to share with either sex can all crack on. There will be trans people who feel shunned by not being allowed to use the bathroom or changing room of the gender they’ve chosen to be (I suspect that I’ve clumsily worded that) but like I say, tough isn’t it? Women matter more than being slightly put out over a bathroom.
It’s such a minefield trying to please and not offend people so you just have to accept you can’t do that and look after the most vulnerable which is women and children. No harm though in my opinion discussing these things, maybe one day someone will have a tremendous idea that pleases everyone x

My award for the most fatuous comment goes to whichever fuck wit told me MN is not my mum.
Joint second place for being general fuck wits goes to all those who have chosen to miss my point because they have something they want to say related to the subject but don't want to start their own thread because they know similar fuck wits will hijack it.

Thank you to the posters who haven't done that.

Good night

If a man cuts his penis off he is a man without a penis. He is not a woman. The same way that if you cut one horn off a cow it doesn't become a unicorn.

I hope that's clear.

.

OP is bored

they flounced off

what a shame

Oh! I've won an award!

So lovely, thank you!

Nighty night!

An aside here but does everyone realise that in a French court Dora Moutot was found guilty of transphobia for saying less than this?

(She said women had to be wary of anyone with a penis for which she got a €1000 fine and costs against her)

What did you want to achieve from your post? Everyone’s agreement?

that would make you a “fuck wit” as you say.

It isn’t just about “accidentally seeing male genitalia.”

It is about running into an obviously male person in a confined space.

It is about men who like to listen to women use the toilet or try and instigate chat about make up/tampons/ “girl things”.

It is about how women feel when they are vulnerable and partly dressed or dealing with period fallout at the sinks and they know there is a male person in the next cubicle /waiting by the sinks/ blocking the exit.

Removal of a penis does not change someone’s sex or how most women will read that person’s sex.

Women will still feel uncomfortable or fearful and on edge around this person, just as they would around a man who entered a space set aside for female people.

So no, the uk law is quite clear that female spaces are for female people.

Female/male difference is about a lot more than genitalia.

Interesting.

The incident took place in 2022, in a televised debate. The court case was recently, this year. In its ruling, the court argued that Moutot had reduced “transgender women” to “their male attribute.”

Oddly enough that is exactly what today's OP has done for women - reduced us to our "female attribute".

Moutot intends to appeal.

This is surely easily covered with 'female' and 'male'?

It is not about genitalia.

It is about women retaining their rights to privacy, dignity, and safety in a single sex space.

No males. Zero. None.

A man might feel he is a woman in a man's body but in reality he is still a man assuming he knows what it feels like to be female through their male view of the world.

A bit like if I put on a wool jumper, get on all fours and eat grass. I'm not really a sheep in a human body, I'm just assuming what it feels like to be a sheep through my human imagination.

I am not disagreeing with you. The point of my post was to find a way, in light of how women are being marginalised, to make it very clear that women should have women spaces. We shouldn't have to be so specific but if using the word vulva does mean penises are barred, then maybe that is the way to go.

I was present when a 'fully transitioned' transsexual kicked off about something. It was a very intimidating experience. Removal of male genitals makes no difference to male entitlement and aggression. I imagine it makes them worse, in some cases.

I'll say it again - 'male' and 'female' is fine....

The biggest problem I have with your argument/suggestion is that it allows for exceptions and that just doesn’t work.

The rule is simple: Women are adult human females, girls are adolescent human females. Women/girl only spaces/facilities/services are for females. NO males are allowed to use those, no males wearing dresses, no males taking cross sex hormones, no males who have had cosmetic surgery to alter their appearance, no males who feel particularly feminine today. Just NO males.

When you start making exceptions on a case-by-case basis you start diluting the rule and widening the scope of the laws. How do you write legislation that says ‘This space/service/facility is for women, unless the man looks enough like a woman to pass xx% of the time, or has a set of circumstances that meet these thresholds, in which case they can use this, this and this service but not that facility and they can use this space but only under these circumstances….’

It’s perfectly clear already in UK law.
Women’s spaces are for females. No one is really confused by this, whatever they may pretend. We don’t need to describe ourselves in terms of specific female body parts. Your idea is misplaced, completely unecessary and as unwelcome to most women as being described as ‘menstruators’.

But even by creating the category "women, and men who have had this specific mutilation", you're normalising this horrific procedure, and tacitly accepting it as a legitimate thing to do.

It's not. It's not ok to horrifically mutilate a living human being in such a way. It doesn't matter if he opts into it, there are some things we just shouldn't do, we can't let people consent to be harmed so significantly. It's too barbarically cruel.

Are you saying that some men with penises genuinely believe they are women with penises and don’t understand that the women’s changing rooms are not for them?

Reducing women to their body parts. No thanks.

As has already been pointed out, you were apparently including men who'd had genital surgery in your proposed "vulva only" spaces. So double no.

You'd have us retreat from the words we use to categorise us as a sex because men are apporopriating them and colonising our spaces, but most of us say fuck no to that.

If we did this, it wouldn't matter. Whatever alternative words we use to describe ourselves, these types of men would eventually appropriate those too.

But we don't want to just bar the men with penises. We want to bar the men without penises too. All men, barred from women-only services. Simples.

I hope no one reports this post, it would be nice if it could be saved in the thread for posterity.

Apparently the intelligent, articulate women here who want to keep males out of female single sex spaces, and who have argued with illogical-offensive nonsense from TRAs for years are fuck wits... says the OP looks back at OP's posts. I think we all know who the fuck wits are, and it's not the women😂

No males of any kind in female spaces.