Will fewer men discover they have female gendered souls?

[ItsCoolForCats]

The landscape has changed a lot in the last year or two in the UK. 10 years ago, if a man declared himself a women, many work policies allowed him to use women's changing rooms and toilets on the first day "presenting in his new gender". And he would be lauded as stunning and brave. Thankfully, these policies are getting binned now.

And the landscape is changing elsewhere as well. The IOC coming down on the side of protecting the female category has been really pivotal. If the Democrats in the US continue to push for men to be able to compete in women's sports, they will lose votes.

If tw have to use third spaces, won't be able to compete in women's sports or take women's honours and titles, will discovering their inner lady gendered soul become less appealing? Will.we see fewer sob stories in the metro about someone who was "femme-presenting" that day suffering the indignity of being denied entry to a female changing room?

You'd like to think so, wouldn't you?

When playing along with the LARP isn't imposed on anyone else, will it be as satisfying?

I think the whole thing is thankfully collapsing in on itself, younger generations are seeing through it, and organisations are rightly reversing the decisions they’ve made.

Organisations like Stonewall and Mermaids are now seen as more and more problematic, so yes I think less men will suddenly start ‘feeling like women’ when there’s nothing in it for them.

It’s a good question. First we would need to see the EHRC guidance being respected and implemented to know whether it was having an effect on behaviour.

The recent Tempest/SEEN tribunal.got me thinking about this. The claimant talked about how wonderful things were when he came out ten years ago. Any female employees who were uncomfortable about him suddenly appearing in the women's toilets would have been powerless to do anything. If they were brave enough to object, they would have been tarred as intolerant bigots.

If someone comes out to their employer as trans now, they will be offered a third space to use, which seems reasonable enough. But many of us know from experience this isn't what they want. They want access to women's spaces, they want everyone to be forced to use their preferred pronouns and they want anyone who objects to be punished. What will they men do now?

I also foresee recriminations and a fallout between the "true trans" as they view themselves, and the gender fluid/non-binary/neo-pronouns lot.

I know it isn't over yet, but it's getting there now. I just cannot comprehend how bizarre the entire episode of trans is was. Baffles me how so many bowed to this ideology. I still shake my head now and then.

Anyhow, barring mass public displays of opposition and en masse entering women's spaces as a protest, I hope the determination to invade women's spaces will cease eventually. There's nothing for them there anymore. They are not allowed to do this now.

The ones I hope disappear very soon are the so-called "trans kids", and the very young trans people. So yeah, I want the older men to drop it, because once there's no more need to support them, hopefully the game will be over for everyone else too.

No because your theory is only true if most trans women are sexual predators or wanting a power play over cis women which is not the case and highly inappropriate to suggest it is.

We may see less coming out because of society trending against acceptance. With anything like that I'm sure there will be more reluctance to come out from fear of their safety and judgement. That's not the same as what you were suggesting though.

I suspect there will be a lot fewer men discovering their "inner woman" in prison if they don't get to move to the women's prisoners as a result.

Define soul ........

It is baffling. How did we ever have a situation where a man could announce that from the next day he would be coming to work as a woman and everyone bends over backwards to accommodate this. And any women who objected would be punished 🙁 It's dystopian.

What do you mean by acceptance? I firmly believe that people's beliefs about themselves should be accepted, provided those beliefs don't negatively impact anyone else. Third spaces are a great compromise because trans people don't have to use the facilities of their birth sex, if they don't want to, and women who want and need single sex spaces have their rights respected. Making the mens' category in sport open means everyone can take part in sport, whilst protecting the right of female athletes to fair and safe sport.

I suspect your view of acceptance is different to mine though...

Even more baffling is the situation when a man decides he'll be a woman some days and a man on others and everyone has to treat him as a woman on his woman days.

Other people don't matter, at all.

I remember that when I was in the community, there was zero consideration of how the people whose spaces we got into would or could react. That just wasn't on our radar at all.

It was all seen as the next LGB, where coming out was all that was necessary to be fully accepted and supported. The massive differences between LGB and T were not explored at all.

And since those were the views that were presented to politicians, it's no surprise to me they just went along with it.

When I told my DH about Philip/Pips Bunce he didn't believe me. When I showed him photos, he still didn't believe me because he thought it had to be a piss take.

Don't know, I lurk on trans reddit and A lot of the comments make it seem that being trans is like a game with a series of goals which can be achieved . A lot of them seem to like playing this game of make believe .

I think there probably will still be some men coming out as trans, but I do think there will be far less of them.
There are definitely men who have claimed trans just for the opportunity to to get nearer to vulnerable women and girls, who I think will just 'realise they're not trans after all', when the laws are finally actually enforced.

I wouldn't say it's a game, more like a race, with a list of steps to take, and happiness waiting behind the finish line. I can understand why it's so very tempting for people, especially young ones, who are dissastisfied with their life. They literally get the promise that if they follow the protocol, they will receive everlasting satisfaction. Who wouldn't want that?

Do you think anyone actually believed this?

It's just much more palatable to the media and society in general to say "woman trapped in a man's body" "female soul", rather than "I get sexually aroused when dressing as the opposite sex".

It's a project, a lot of them are unemployed youths and a project to transition delays (and makes excuses) adulthood. A lot of people feel lost after transition because they've got nothing else to focus on, all the mythological advantages don't appear. That's why a lot end up working for a trans rights organisation, because they've got nothing to offer, no qualifications, no skills etc.

It was never going to have sustained momentum. While allyship was very appealing to certain types of people, the type who often hold institutional power such as in the arts, the civil service etc (the lanyard class), they were obliviously building a massive obstacle that was the inevitable result of greater ‘trans visibility’, the wider public not liking what they’re seeing or its implications. The ordinary woman or man on the #9 omnibus doesn’t care that Fred down the road calls himself Fredricka and likes to get about in a floral skirt, he’s just a harmless eccentric, but she most certainly doesn’t want Fred in her gym changing room because she knows he’s a man, and he doesn’t want Fred using the same public toilet as his young daughter because he knows Fred is a man. Then they see the louder sorts on social media and become very sure indeed that not only Fred, but also his worryingly weird friends, shouldn’t be in any space specifically for women at all.
Trans ideology floats along on a sea of obfuscating postmodern bullshit, objections to it are clear cut and completely logical.

"they will have to arrest me" was the response from most men insistent they will continue using womens spaces. Both weekend crossdressers and men who have had surgery to look like women.

Some may cease but other will hang on to the bitter end.

I don't know, I have known quite a few 'trans' people on the scene over the years, although that's not what they called themselves 20 years ago. There are definitely different groups under that one term, and they don't necessarily need the same approach imo. One of the most damaging things to happen to transsexuals (or truscum as they have been so delightfully labelled in the trans community) is to be grouped under one umbrella with fetishists, AGPs and other abusive opportunistic men.

It's probably not the right time to have that conversation now, though, because we are still in the trenches fighting off the most egregious examples of men who are clearly indulging a fetish and enjoying being able to ignore women's protests and indulge their porn-soaked misogyny. I hope that we can reach a less fraught time when the bad actors are given no quarter and those who are just trying to quietly get by without bothering anyone can be separated from them and accommodated in 3rd spaces. It doesn't feel like we are anywhere close to being there yet, though, so for the time being, we must continue fighting without distinction. Nuance will have to wait.

“We may see less coming out because of society trending against acceptance. With anything like that I'm sure there will be more reluctance to come out from fear of their safety and judgement.”

There is no trending against acceptance though.

Perhaps you mean that society is now, rightly, understanding that other people don’t have any obligation to act as in they belief an individual’s subject reality when that subjective reality is not grounded in material reality. In other words, if a male person claims to be female, not one other person has to act as if they believe that claim.

If there are fears for safety, those need to be addressed in a way that does not cause harm or allow harm to occur to any other group of people. An equitable solution needs to be found and it may not involve treating that male person as if he is female. It might involve treating that person as a vulnerable male person.

It is a misrepresentation to make an over simplified statement about ‘acceptance’ and it is one that could be considered emotionally manipulative too.

so are you saying that we’re imagining all the male criminals coming out as trans because they’re going to prison? There’s very clear evidence that transition is being used as a power play or to give access to females in some situations.