Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 8

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551959-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-7

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

100%

And we would expect them to consider the credibility of the witness in their inferences. And it would be hard for anyone not to understand CA as an extremely credible witness.

They toured in 2024 and Justin had to sing lower and play different chords because of his Parkinson’s. I then saw that they were touring in 2025 as well.

ETA, saw @Shedmistress post. Yay! And nearer where I live.

I need a lie down.

Way back at the start, such a loong time ago, I think I found that he'd been the judge on one of the early applications in the Darlington nurses case before it got to trial. So he'll know he and his judgment will be under scrutiny.
Which makes his ETBB ruling all the more extraordinary. I wonder if he's since realised what a massive cockup that was.

I'm nodding off. I don't think I'll manage to stay awake all afternoon.

CA is taking one for the team

Was someone else lining up to do the c&p this afternoon? Sorry, I can't remember!

I can do up until 3ish if needed, but not after that.

The same one, over and over and over again....

I would so love it if, over lunch, Naomi sent her instructing solicitor back to the office to pick up a projector/cables and a screen.

It sounds to me as if they could simply freeze a couple of rows of titles and columns and pop on a couple of data filters and the whole thing would be easy to interrogate.

If HH and ST are super-paranoid they could be asked to "protect" key cell ranges.

I am also very sleepy and probably won't be able to lower the tone this afternoon.

I'm impressed. Those are decent sized venues. They must have quite a following still.

I don't really understand it either? Can anyone explain? Was DEFRA suggesting you don't speak about your sexuality? Or did CA mention it in WS?

Also, did she not know that CA is a lesbian? As a parting shot that would be a huge risk if she did? Stupid if she didn't

I will have the tennis on as I refer to my iPad.

Purely to keep me awake.

I don’t know what HH was doing. I was drinking last night because DH was watching the France game, and I was tired after spending five hours with my learning disabled DSD, so I think last night as I ploughed through, I was blaming being tired on why it was so tiring to read.

But now I see it’s just that it’s repetitive and boring in the first instance.

Nobody cares HH. They probably moderated SEEN unnecessarily to please ST and his gang. Because everyone, including you, bends over backwards for the trans brigade.

Frankly if ST worked for me in the charity sector, I’d have said if you can’t stand disagreement about your views, such that you are caused extreme distress and “harm”, maybe this isn’t the job for you. Think on that for a week before I instigate a capability process.

Warm up just finishing at Wimbledon

Poor Elspeth got very upset. Hope she’s ok. Hope the judge is as kind to her as he was to Tink.

I know she’s not going to be questioned this time round.

CA suggested that "team GI" wanted and was asking DEFRA to adopt a "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards the characteristic of holding GC beliefs. You can be gender critical but it would be forbidden to say so in the workplace.

HH said this was trivializing the offence caused to LGB people by "don't ask don't tell", and CA said, as a lesbian myself I fully understand how offensive it is.

😢

From TT

Good afternoon. This is the afternoon of the final day (in this session) of Samantha Tempest v DEFRA & Rural Payments Agency.

The court is at present taking lunch, and the hearing will resume at 1.45pm. Caroline Airs (CA) will continue her evidence.

Naomi Cunningham (NC) barrister for SEEN (Sex Equality & Equity Network, intervening in the case) will begin cross-examination of CA.

We expect that before that there will be discussion of how the rest of the case will be heard, as this is at present the last available day and there is still one witness to be heard.

I wonder if CA compared making SEEN unseen to don't ask don't tell?

HH walked right into that one.

Edited to add I see My Ample Sheep has elucidated.

<perks up at mention of Del Amitri>

I saw them headline a local festival a few years ago. They were great. Glad to hear they're still going.

I think there are two or three witnesses still. At least one from Defra plus EDW.

And just like that it was HH’s case that ceased to exist

Did HH actually say "non-binary women"? Would love to know.
It is genocidal to say that NB people are women or men.

Possibly a reflection overnight about her 'marker' about policing of her language. As I said earlier I think he has been so laser focused on what he has to adjudicate he's seen her as noises off because he is not adjudicating what she brings. However, the marker yesterday will have caused him to have a bit of a rethink (perhaps someone at home mentioned he was coming across as an arse!)

I also agree that her ability to find his place and give a verbatim note will have impressed given that he seems to have written her off based on back-room gossip.

Remember that so much of the judiciary is capture, even worse than civil service, that his backrooms will be full of admin staff etc slagging off Naomi for being a witch.