Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

[Doodwhatareyou]

I recently ended up in the man hating side of tiktok, which is a place I tend to be in agreement with. I’ve seen several women bravely battle stupid men in the comments who manage to reinforce everything being said.

I’ve seen a pattern though that these women, who seem to be very up on rules of misogyny, and aware of how problematic too many men are, usually have pronouns in their bio, and occasionally will complain about being bullied by terfs.

I’m baffled.

How can they be so up on patriarchal nonsense yet miss the fundamental misogyny in gender ideology. How can they deny the evidence that trans identified men are just as much of a problem for women if not more as they want women’s rights and spaces.

They can make endless videos about how hateful men are because of the way women are treated, and how women have to budge up and make room, yet trans identified men are women, and anyone who says otherwise is a massive bigot. I don’t understand.

Regardless, as they are women, we will fight for their rights.

What is the difference and why?

How would one be able to tell the difference?

How many trans men are interested in having a baby? I know some are.

I think more trans men will find parental leave beneficial as it is typically their partners giving birth and it's laws that allowed queer parents to be officially named on BCs that have pushed towards those kinds of rights. Better parental leave for the non-pregnant parent etc.

Because the people who identify as men can say as much. The ones who identify as women will usually be welcome to stay unless they are problematic, like anyone else.

That's noble but again, beside the point.

These 'trans inclusive feminists' keep on telling they 'see men as women' yet are never ever able to tell us at what point a man suddenly becomes a woman but bang on and on about how 'we' are not real feminists because we dont centre these poor little men.

So if you cannot explain it, why the fuck should we, the people who know feminism is about women, believe a sodding word you say?

The law already covers discrimination by perception.

What it doesn't allow you to do is claim that you have suffered discrimination because you simply identify as having a particular characteristic.

That would be bonkers.

Stay where? Is this feminism as a social club?

I don't identify as having any gender identity, but I still depend on sex based rights.

Well no, the original point I was making was your misuse of 'trans inclusion'

unless they are problematic

Here comes the disclaimer: Obviously by trans women we mean true trans women and not rapist gender or rapid prison onset dysphoria gender or the fetishists or the men that threaten women with splintery rolling pins

Well it kind of does.

No i dont olay the games played here. Even the rapist ones are trans women if they say they are. But a woman behaving in a problematic way is also going to be excluded from the space. Their sex/gender is irrelevant.

I think that in this brave new world where we are no longer assessing the impact of policy through the prism of sex, maternity leave can be safely ended.

Only a minority of people might need it at any one time, so why put pressure on businesses?

It isnt inclusion if you wont see the people for who they are. No matter how much you want it to be. The people concerned won't feel safe.

In a feminist space.

The logical conclusion is that all spaces are now mixed sex, and we are assessing everyone on a case by case basis.

I don't have a problem with you making that argument, but it would be an interesting policy proposal for any government.

It's bad that they say you aren't really feminists. Trans exclusionary feminism is feminism, too. This is the issue with fundamentalists on both sides.

Even the rapist ones are trans women if they say they are.

Now re-write that in TW=W language: Even the rapist ones are women if they say they are.

Now let's all read that back to ourselves.

Is it aye.

What is the point of this 'feminist' space?

Is it like the Reform club where the name refers to something that is now irrelevant?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I think you're so baffled with trying to play gotcha that you arent following along.

No I don't see men as women.

Because humans can't change sex.

You understand that, right?

I'm going to stop interacting with you because it seems like you are trying ti derail thr thread as it has become more complex. Mumsnet have said they want to craxk down on derailing.

This is an attempt to deflect from what you said. You have talked yourself into a very tight corner.

Yes I understand that you don't, but your views don't define the different types of feminism. That's the whole point.

Even if you close your eyes really tight, and make a wish, trans inclusionary feminists will still be feminists, and so will you.