'Arm the Dolls'

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

Pictured is Natacha Kennedy of Goldsmiths.

T shirt says 'Arm the Dolls'

I think I should be able to live without being distressed about my body. What is the compromise that keeps everyone happy?

I too think I should be able to live without being distressed about my body.

Unfortunately I have a condition which makes walking, standing, sitting or lying down extremely painful a lot of the time. This however is a condition which is almost certainly quite easily treatable, and the NHS may eventually get round to treating: it was diagnosed eighteen months ago, I'm still waiting for a procedure. This is because they are strapped for cash, as I understand it, and (as you can imagine) I find people with self-inflicted problems getting treatment for them literally at my expense less than charming. So if you suffer at any time from any of the side-effects misuse of hormones may cause, expect no sympathy from me. You'll be disappointed if you do. I regard freedom from physical pain as rather more of a priority than feelings of discontent.

And my answer to any assertion that anyone male is happy to trespass in spaces to which his access is forbidden is still that this is frankly disgusting of him.

That ship has sailed - the trans community fought for many years for women to lose their rights, and it's going to take many years to right those wrongs. If you had all simply said 'we have gender dysphoria and we're going to address this by modifying our male bodies - but don't worry, we know we're male and we won't impinge on the rights of women (and the rest of it) at all, we'll stick to the correct spaces for our sex - and other men will just have to get used to us and accept our form of maleness', or if you (the general you) had stood up to the TRAs and refused to be complicit in their appalling behaviour by voicing that loudly, then you wouldn't have had anything like the level of pushback you've had.

We won't compromise - we want our legal rights, and our privacy, dignity and safety, and we're taking all of them back.

I think we need to understand that any treatment a man chooses to have isn't a transition. He's still a man.

If men change their name, take drugs and have surgery, its personal and only cosmetic. Its not safe to expect or even ask society to see these men as anything other than men.

Once that is established, everything else falls into place. Its obvious women spaces are only for women and girls, men can continue to use male spaces because they are and always will be male.

Basically, of course men can decide to change their body, but the idea that they are no longer men and have transition to something else needs to go.

That keeps everyone happy. Apart from men who use the idea of 'transition' to use women's spaces.

We won't compromise - we want our legal rights, and our privacy, dignity and safety, and we're taking all of them back.

This. Why should we compromise? What do i get out of men transitioning?

Even now, trans reddit are furious about the safeguarding policies in schools because it bursts their 'transition' fantasies.

Get your own house in order before you start demanding compromises.

This. Why should we compromise? What do i get out of men transitioning?
You do realise I can make the exact same argument in reverse, right?

No one in the trans community is fighting for women to lose rights. You may see it that way but that’s not the goal of trans right, and lots of women don’t see it your way either.

Why should your rights be prioritised over trans rights?

Oh but they did and they are - as well you know.

What trans rights are women seeking to overturn or take for themselves that don't belong to them?

This is just not true. Colonising language, single sex spaces, getting people sacked, driving them to employment tribunals....

I disagree. That’s just your perception of what trans rights are doing to women’s right. It doesn’t make it true.

sigh Why can't TRAs address the issues, instead of denying them? Denial never helps in going forward.

It does. Why won't third spaces do? Or an acceptance that woman or man means biologically based? Then wear what you like.

“lots of women don’t see it your way either.”

The majority of female people in the UK consistently poll as wanting to exclude male people, regardless of their gender identity, from female single sex provisions. Across different polls. I am happy to link them up.

”lots” does not equal majority.

So no female people are coerced due with social, familial, or policy pressure to use female language for male people?

No male people demanded to use female single sex provisions and just use them regardless of laws, policy and understanding female people’s needs? For instance, no male people believe that they should not have to acknowledge that they are male and break away from a group of female friends/associates to not enter the female toilet? No male people believe that they have the right because every treats them like female people to just use the toilets and change room they want if a mixed sex provision is not available?

Is this just our ‘perception’? Really?

Come off it - no- one is falling for that. Unless you have been living under an actual rock for tge last 20 years you know exactly what has happened to women in that time. Your faux ignorance isn't washing. Own it.

It is gaslighting.

Of course it is.

I do often wonder if posters like this are deliberately setting out to dismantle the trans arguments on a large public forum, one fallacy at a time.

No, because you can't. As so often, you are not making a sensible argument or point. Because you can't – whether that means one does not exist, or you are incapable of making one, I leave it to you to decide.

Oh my god.

Why should women have rights?!

Its clear you don't see us as humans worthy of equality.

Why in the ever loving fuck would you get the right to use women's spaces while other men can't? What makes you so special?

Because they are arguing to win the argument, not to get to the fairest solution.

Practise arguing with an abusive narc helps to make the pattern clearer.

Our rights to single sex spaces and services. What bastards we are, eh? Imagine thinking we could ask for a male free space!

'Transwomen' can ask for a male free space and get sympathy. Women ask for a male free space and get called bigots.

The funny bit is that I have a TON of practise arguing with narcissists, because my mother was one. But I have this default button in my brain where nobody else can be as bad as she was, you know? You're right, though: seen under that light, it all makes sense.

What do you mean by in reverse?

Do you mean what do you get out women existing? You need women to exist to know who to try to copy. Single sex spaces and sex based rights? We already know for the most part these are for the benefit of women, so of course men dont get anything out of them.

Be whoever you need to be inside your own mind. Make whatever adjustments you need to be at peace with the mirror.

But don't use female language for yourself and correct those who do, if anyone does. Don't walk through physical or metaphorical doors marked "women only".

Simples.

Unless "being distressed about your body" actually means "being distressed unless other people treat me like they also believe I am a woman"?

No one?

Not Mridul Wadhwa at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, Dr Theo/Beth Upton, Rose Henderson, Stephanie Tempest, Stephen White, Katie Dolatowski, Isla Bryson, Laurel Hubbard, Philippa York, Emily Bridges, Pip Bunce, Steph Richards, Lily Madigan...

Not the ones insisting women can't have single sex facilities, crisis centres, prisons, sports, industry awards, political offices?

We paid attention and we kept receipts.