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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?

436 replies

SolveMyPrombles · 26/06/2026 20:05

I'm asking on this board for deliberate considered responses so please do share your thoughts.

A lady on a local group has described being trans as a mental illness that should be treated with compassion not pandered to because it's a disease.

Looking into it more deeply I believe she's wrong and there is no current diagnostic manual that agrees with her take.

What do you think?

OP posts:
Baileyonice · Today 11:08

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 10:26

Yes, gender ideology morphed out of certain stages and forms of feminism - and, as such, has co-opted the arguments that some feminists use/d to suggest that there was nothing essentially different between males and females - that all differences and preferences are socially constructed. That we are not our bodies or our biological function.

This ties in with Judith Butler's suggestions that what we think are sex based differences are really just performances of gender. And gender is entirely socially constructed.

Gender ideolgues never really understood feminism; they just took some of its theses for granted. Feminism was never really just one theory anyway......there were always different strands of woman centred thinking. In their minds we are all equal and women are no longer tied to their biology; in fact female biology is often seen as oppressive.

Edited

Gender ideolgues never really understood feminism; they just took some of its theses for granted. Feminism was never really just one theory anyway.

You can't have it both ways. Either males & females overlap or they don't AND that was/is the main takeaway that could only legitimise equality.

GC's conveniently don't understand how principles need to be consistent to be regarded as principles.

Baileyonice · Today 11:15

noblegiraffe · Today 11:00

So you get to pick and choose cultural acceptance for your gender being valid, but the two-spirit do not?

Helloooo? Anyone home?

By definition 'socially constructed' means a broadly accepted meaning of a phenomena. I don't make the rules.

BettyBooper · Today 11:20

Baileyonice · Today 11:08

Gender ideolgues never really understood feminism; they just took some of its theses for granted. Feminism was never really just one theory anyway.

You can't have it both ways. Either males & females overlap or they don't AND that was/is the main takeaway that could only legitimise equality.

GC's conveniently don't understand how principles need to be consistent to be regarded as principles.

'Males' and 'females' don't overlap in humans because they are independent biological sex categories.

BettyBooper · Today 11:21

Baileyonice · Today 11:15

Helloooo? Anyone home?

By definition 'socially constructed' means a broadly accepted meaning of a phenomena. I don't make the rules.

That is not what 'socially constructed' means.

FrippEnos · Today 11:21

Baileyonice · Today 11:15

Helloooo? Anyone home?

By definition 'socially constructed' means a broadly accepted meaning of a phenomena. I don't make the rules.

TRAs have been trying to make the rules for the last 15 yrs or so.

And if they can't get people to adhere to them they will twist the rules so that they fit their agenda.

noblegiraffe · Today 11:32

Baileyonice · Today 11:15

Helloooo? Anyone home?

By definition 'socially constructed' means a broadly accepted meaning of a phenomena. I don't make the rules.

But you also agree that non-binary isn't broadly accepted.

And yet you think it is valid, therefore you are not accepting the rules that you yourself put forward.

Baileyonice · Today 11:46

noblegiraffe · Today 11:32

But you also agree that non-binary isn't broadly accepted.

And yet you think it is valid, therefore you are not accepting the rules that you yourself put forward.

I never said that. I said two spirit wasn't.

Helleofabore · Today 11:48

Baileyonice · Today 11:08

Gender ideolgues never really understood feminism; they just took some of its theses for granted. Feminism was never really just one theory anyway.

You can't have it both ways. Either males & females overlap or they don't AND that was/is the main takeaway that could only legitimise equality.

GC's conveniently don't understand how principles need to be consistent to be regarded as principles.

And we are back to this nugget.

The fight for 'equality' was the fight for 'equality of opportunity' which always needed equitable solutions to achieve. There is no overlap between which human's are male and which are female because those sex categories are defined by having a body formed around one gamete production format or the other, regardless of whether that body produces that gamete at any stage of life.

Heggettypeg · Today 11:53

Transactivism is basically a mess. The only thing they seem to agree about is that the rest of us should be made to Believe, or at least punished if we don't talk and act as though we Believe.

As to what it is we're supposed to be believing, they can't even agree amongst themselves. Who actually counts as trans, and why; what exactly gender is; how many genders there really are.. No consensus at all.

BettyBooper · Today 11:54

Helleofabore · Today 11:48

And we are back to this nugget.

The fight for 'equality' was the fight for 'equality of opportunity' which always needed equitable solutions to achieve. There is no overlap between which human's are male and which are female because those sex categories are defined by having a body formed around one gamete production format or the other, regardless of whether that body produces that gamete at any stage of life.

But it's just soooo complicated and confuuuuuusing!

🙄

noblegiraffe · Today 12:03

Baileyonice · Today 11:46

I never said that. I said two spirit wasn't.

You agreed that non-binary didn't have cross-cultural acceptance. It is therefore not broadly accepted. It is not, for example, recognised in law in the UK.

I'm assuming that your definition of 'broadly accepted' however will be 'just enough acceptance for me to say non-binary is a valid gender'.

Theunchosenone · Today 12:08

Baileyonice · Today 11:03

Not as desperate as someone attempting to pretend men & women are exactly the same!

Her statement is self explanatory. She doesn't think Jenner's experience 'qualifies' him as a woman implying there's a female common experience.

At this point you are wilfully misunderstanding the obvious hypocrisy here.

Isn’t that trans activists claiming men and women are totally the same and interchangeable? I mean, if enough males have “feminine” characteristics, at what point do those characteristics no longer become “feminine” but masculine?

noblegiraffe · Today 12:12

Re-designate those males as 'women' and that problem goes away.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 12:13

Baileyonice · Today 10:26

If a male person has nurturing feelings ( coded 'feminine' socially) that is not down to him having female biology. It is down to the fact that personality characteristics manifest in both males and females. Personality is not a direct biological feature or manifestation. It is a human feature - some of which may well, though, be shaped by one's biological parents and the inheritance from them. We can certainly seem to inherit personality traits from both of our biological parents ( even when we have never met them).

Glad to hear you are paying attention to my previous comments on biological influences here. Yes, males & females share personality traits but not evenly. Genes & hormones create average differences which result in behavioural sex distinctions.

So you are agreeing on my third point. That the most important thing for someone, in terms of their mental health and well being, is being secure in themselves - and not being overly dependent on social validation or affirmation. which is of course an important point when it comes to an identity rooted in ideas and speculations about 'gender', and which has an expectation or need for others to validate that self identity.

You are confused here. I'm not suggesting the existence of identity relies on social validation but rather not being perceived socially as a'freak' because you are different from the norm preserves one's mental health….which isn't exclusive to trans people but all socially non conforming people.

Personally, i'd have thought it far more 'progressive' to understand and accept that we all can share in a wide range of personal characteristics and personality - regardless of whether we are male or female; men or women.

We agree! I just get there different to you. For me trans people epitomise the psychological interchangeability between men & women. My understanding of feminism is rooted in psychological overlap. And in actual fact anti feminists are renowned for blaming transgenderism on feminism justifiably for this reason. They understood it opened the door to interchangeability between the sexes.

I think the reason for the schism between us is I don't put as much value in the words 'man' & 'woman' that creates the stereotype allegations. They really aren't sufficient for today's complexities & therefore cause conflict & confusion.

Edited

'Man' and 'woman' are perfectly fine for identifying who belongs to which sex category - if they weren't why would the terms need to be appropriated by transgender ideology?

If 'male' and 'female' were truly interchangeable nobody would need to transition would they?. Ultimately, there is no getting around the body and its deeper and wider implications - no matter how we'd like to.

Seethlaw · Today 12:14

Heggettypeg · Today 11:53

Transactivism is basically a mess. The only thing they seem to agree about is that the rest of us should be made to Believe, or at least punished if we don't talk and act as though we Believe.

As to what it is we're supposed to be believing, they can't even agree amongst themselves. Who actually counts as trans, and why; what exactly gender is; how many genders there really are.. No consensus at all.

Exactly.

I wish more people in the general public were aware of this. They would realise that it's impossible to be a trans ally, because there's no such thing as a unified trans cause to begin with.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Today 12:28

Seethlaw · Today 12:14

Exactly.

I wish more people in the general public were aware of this. They would realise that it's impossible to be a trans ally, because there's no such thing as a unified trans cause to begin with.

And no matter what the activists are conceded, it's never enough. They will always want more. If there is an end goal, it's likely to be complete world domination, but even then, they would never be able to agree who gets to be Ruler Of All. The infighting is so visible now, it's starting to spill over into MN threads as well. Really clear to be seen when you get two or three TRAs on one thread. The movement is eating itself. This is why I'm very interested to see where they shift to next.

MarieDeGournay · Today 12:35

It's gone from

'TWAW/TMAM 100% and you are a hateful transphobic bigot if you disagree'
to
'Of course humans can't change sex, we're talking about gender presentation here, not sex'
via
'I am now a biological woman'
and
'The fact that she has testes and does not have a uterus does not make her any less a woman'.

There's no 'there' there, there's a factual void around a refusal to accept that human sex is binary and immutable.

murasaki · Today 12:38

I agree re the TRAs infighting. It's all a bit Judean popular front, people's front of Judea etc.

Splitters.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 12:46

Baileyonice · Today 11:08

Gender ideolgues never really understood feminism; they just took some of its theses for granted. Feminism was never really just one theory anyway.

You can't have it both ways. Either males & females overlap or they don't AND that was/is the main takeaway that could only legitimise equality.

GC's conveniently don't understand how principles need to be consistent to be regarded as principles.

I don't refer to myself using the terminology 'GC'. I am simply a human female who understands why we have single sex categories in certain situations, and who understands that males are not female. It is my body and its intended biological; function that makes me a woman; the way that body is perceived or judged or treated is a different matter - one which does have more social and cultural implications.

There is huge power in the female body and in its function - power and beauty in its own right. There is a great value in being female; and a unique set of experiences which are overwhelmingly positive, There is an integrity and an inherent dignity in being female. Males are not female..no matter how they present or how they perform 'femininity'. The body knows this. My body knows this.

I've never been of the school of thought that thought there were essentially no innate differences between the sexes. The whole 'equality' angle on things. That everything is socially constructed. That women's oppression down to 'the patriarchy' and so on. That if only women could be free of their biological function they would be liberated etc

Some strands of feminism came to posit that view because of the way that women and girls were suppressed and channeled into only certain occupations etc; because women were expected to give up their jobs upon marriage and so on, take their husband's name.....couldn't take out a mortgage in their own name; had no control over their own fertility, and so on.

Some of the early feminists were lesbians who wanted to reject relationships with men altogether, or women whose experience of relationships with men was primarily one of abuse, violence, rape. Being female was to be subject to oppression by men. And for many women it is, and it still is.....and millions of women do still live in societies in which there is a 'patriarchal' rule of law - in which women and girls are not permitted to engage in the full variety of human occupation, activity or interest. Look at Afghanistan, as an example; or at societies in which women are not permitted any public life, or permiitted to leave the house without a male chaperone.

Equality laws can only get you so far, though, before generalised differences start to re-assert themselves. We see this in countries like Denmark and Sweden. Those generalised differences are rooted in the roles, preferences and choices that tend to flow from having children/being pregnant/having family responsibilities.

Datun · Today 13:01

It's hilarious that whether you're nurturing or not determines whether you're a man or woman, instead of who actually bore the baby.

Transactivation - irrationality wrapped in lack of logic, enveloped in rank sexism and sold as progressive.

KrazyKatty · Today 13:04

Of course it’s a mental health issue if they can’t accept reality and expect others to support their obvious delusions.

Do you affirm anorexics?

Spaghettimonsta · Today 13:08

If someone dressed up as a pony and lived like that, eating oats off the floor and cantering down the high street because they've always felt their inner essence was more like that of a pony than a human we would describe them as being absolutely fucking batshit

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Today 13:34

Spaghettimonsta · Today 13:08

If someone dressed up as a pony and lived like that, eating oats off the floor and cantering down the high street because they've always felt their inner essence was more like that of a pony than a human we would describe them as being absolutely fucking batshit

The problem being that some people wouldn't.

ps. sorry, that's not clear, I mean that there are some people who would see it as completely "normal."

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · Today 13:37

MarieDeGournay · Today 12:35

It's gone from

'TWAW/TMAM 100% and you are a hateful transphobic bigot if you disagree'
to
'Of course humans can't change sex, we're talking about gender presentation here, not sex'
via
'I am now a biological woman'
and
'The fact that she has testes and does not have a uterus does not make her any less a woman'.

There's no 'there' there, there's a factual void around a refusal to accept that human sex is binary and immutable.

Marie, the one that is really sticking in my head right now is "trans is different but valid."

If they had just stuck to that from the beginning, I don't think we'd all be in this mess now. Of course, they never would have stuck to it, even if someone had said it 15 years ago, because it's never enough.

borntobequiet · Today 13:51

Baileyonice · Today 10:48

What makes you qualified enough to dismiss other posters as unqualified?

Because I'm quoting scientific studies as opposed to unsupported 'feelz'.

Ha ha.

Keep going.

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