Cambridge University ignoring the Supreme Court ruling?

[yoursweetpotatoesarebland]

Dd is going to the Cambridge open day coming up, I got an email through about the colleges and was having a read through. There’s a section about “gender identity” and how it impacts on what colleges you can apply to. There are two women’s colleges but both accept anyone who identifies as a woman!

This is from Murray Edwards:
“At the admissions level, we will consider any student who, at the point of application, identifies as a woman“

How can this still be allowed? It’s self ID too so has NEVER been legal for the purposes of the eqA.

Aww mate, it’s you that’s not listening.

‘Woman’ is an adult human female. It’s not contestable, the SC has clarified exactly what the word ‘woman’ means in equality law.

It doesn’t matter what you think the social usage of the word ‘woman’ can or should be.

I’m sorry if that it’s hard for you to hear (actually I’m not). I’m still surprised by the amount of sexism and misogyny spouted by those claiming to be ‘progressive’.

You're confused. 'Sex' was defined for the purposes of the equality act not as an all purpose definition of 'woman' to be applied in every context & it can't be because it's also a values/beliefs based concept that by extension relies on social usage for survival.

So as long as Cambridge aren't violating any laws (by treating cis women unfavourably as a result of admitting transwomen which they arent) they are free to interpret trans women as 'women' & treat them accordingly.

So as long as Cambridge aren't violating any laws they are free to interpret trans women as 'women' & treat them accordingly.

I'm not sure about the basis on which Murray Edwards or Newnham Colleges were founded; but that's very much not true for, for example, Girl Guides, or the Women's Institute. Where a charity is provided for the benefit of women, or women and girls, or girls, they're absolutely not free to include trans-women.

Even single-sex female colleges that admit trans-women can do so only on the basis that they are men, under the "exceptional" allowance for enrollment of those of the opposite sex.

So, very much they are not free to treat trans-women as women; they must be treated as men.

They treat trans women the same as women as they are giving them the same access to a single sex school based on exceptionalities.

And what exactly are those exceptional circumstances in this case? One's that align with female oppression? The qualifying criteria in this case being contingent on female associations is effectively treating trans women as women.

They're not allowing trans men to use women's toilets or changing spaces.

The qualifying criteria in this case being contingent on female associations is effectively treating trans women as women.

FWIW, I believe it's plainly unlawful discrimination. The men who are admitted are admitted only on the basis of their GR protected characteristic, which is unlawful.

I’m not confused.

We all know what a woman is. It’s not a philosophical concept.

HTH.

@Baileyonice

So all the women I know who don’t have any of these commonalities or traits are they men?

Are you saying I’m a man because I don’t fit the common traits of a woman’s mind?

WTF!!!

They can & they can't. The can't in that they don't experience menstruation, pregnancy, menopause & the associated issues that go along with that. But they can in that they present as women & are treated/discriminated/oppressed in similar ways & are inclined towards their common interests.

1. How are trans women oppressed in the same way women are oppressed that black men aren’t?

2. Please give an example of how they ‘present as women’

@Baileyonice

If men become women if they share traits ‘common’ with women do they do this willingly or unwillingly. who decides?

For example, I have more common traits associated with men, I have short hair, always wear trousers. I work in men’s sport and my main hobby is golf.
If, as you say, women become men if they share many common traits with the opposite sex, would you declare I am a man? Or do I have to self declare? Im confused.

They're not allowing trans men to use women's toilets or changing spaces.

The context here is about admission procedures not lavs.

FWIW, I believe it's plainly unlawful discrimination. The men who are admitted are admitted only on the basis of their GR protected characteristic, which is unlawful.

If you seriously believe that if there was a scintilla of hope that admissions was discriminatory Sex Matters wouldn't be all over it in court, I have a bridge to sell you.

Tell you what, it must burn SM to high heaven that they got the door slam particularly 'cause feminism'. That they, the high priestesses of feminism just got told they don't understand it by one of the most prestigious educational institutions in the UK.

SHEESH!

No. My posts don't say that at all. I suggest you re read them more carefully.

If you seriously believe that if there was a scintilla of hope that admissions was discriminatory Sex Matters wouldn't be all over it in court, I have a bridge to sell you.

I don't think SM has a cause of action; the college isn't a public authority so their policy isn't amenable to JR which leaves it up to a man who feels he has been discriminated against (for not being GR) to bring an action in the County Court. Not many male school leavers are going to bother applying for entry to an all women college they don't really want to attend. Maybe a postgrad would; perhaps it could be a Ph.D project for someone.

I don't think you know much about English law if I need to explain that to you.

So you have to self declare.

You did say that men become women if they share traits that are common to actual women didn’t you?

Err, you're the one who claimed it was discrimination.

This you?

"FWIW, I believe it's plainly unlawful discrimination. The men who are admitted are admitted only on the basis of their GR protected characteristic, which is unlawful."

Yes. What's your point?

Well, according to Maya she confirmed Ca,bridge College would be reported to the EHRC & formal complaints would be made to the authorities. So it would appear SM had taken an 'interest' that hasn't got them anywhere.

"Yet, the college’s stance has not gone unchallenged. Furious campaigners have pledged to report Newnham to the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Charity Commission, alleging a breach of equalities law. Maya Forstater, chief executive of the charity Sex Matters, told The Mail on Sunday, 'Following the Supreme Court's clarification that the Equality Act 2010 follows the ordinary meaning of the words male and female, the college should have been urgently reconsidering its policy to bring it back into line with the law. Instead it has been looking around for loopholes. This is fruitless and foolish.' Forstater confirmed that formal complaints would be made to the relevant authorities."

https://evrimagaci.org/gpt/cambridge-college-defies-court-ruling-on-trans-admissions-514789?srsltid=AfmBOoqT5p34HM-E5y5KXapFKdkx6lMjFdwBhoN1VqgPt-1TeHhFE52O

You have to self-declare as a woman but also you'll be associated with men. Very simple.

Same for me. According to @Baileyonice 's explanations, I'm both and neither a man and a woman:

• masculinised female body
• male-aligned job
• female-aligned hobbies

I'm a social hermaphrodite!

Actually, I guess most people are? I mean, most people have an overlap of male/female interests and so on. Hmm, I guess BON's categorisation isn't quite complete: it should be man/hermaphrodite/woman, with the middle category making up at least 50% of the population. Pretty unwieldy but hey, that's the only way to respect both people's self-ID and their gendered interests.

@Baileyonice i shouldn’t feed the trolls I know - but the legal exception to admit men to a woman’s college is how they might allow men with a female trans identification into the college. As this discriminates against men who have a fluid gender identity, men with a twin spirit gender identity, men without a gender identity and men who have a male gender identity of indeed no gender identity - we are hurting men who are trans. These men with a trans identity who can self ID day by day into their gender sleeves are suffering discrimination. You could be considered by some to want literal death to all these trans people as you are not considering their rights. Some might consider that bigoted.

They need access to all places where women are at all times - because you know for social reasons like they sometimes use the same vocabulary or use their fingers. Women have fingers and men have fingers and men who think they have a female identity have fingers.

This is deep rational thought based. I may be intellectually lacking but I identify as someone intelligent so this is pure sense.

Won’t someone let all men with any trans identity into women’s spaces forever? It’s the only way.

Transwomen are women. Trans twin spirit might be on any given day a transwomen so they’re women. A man who is a trans man identifies as someone who used to be a biological women so they’re a woman. A woman who is a trans man is a biological woman so they’re women. And men who are men sometimes use their fingers or brush their hair and women do that so they are women.

Women’s specie for all men as all men are women.

You may have a DSID. Disorder of social identity.

Wearing short skirts and bad make up apparently makes men into woman.

You wore trousers once so you are not a woman you are a man now. You only self identify as a woman in error. Gender ideology would classify you as trans so you are DSID.

Let’s face it.

The poster trying to categorise males as females through behaviours and interests cannot acknowledge that what they say is
absurd.

There is desperation in creating a category for female people based on behaviour and interests that then exclude huge %’s of female people and will include male people with and without transgender identities and call that category ‘woman’. The inherent sexism that supports that category is like a beacon.

And it is laughable that it is being sold as feminism.

Agreed Helle. He's desperately throwing spaghetti on the wall and hoping against hope that it sticks. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

The poster trying to categorise males as females through behaviours and interests cannot acknowledge that what they say is absurd.

Just looking at the way they have constructed this categorisation:

Sine the beginning of time, people have been categorised according to their sex. (True.)

Some behaviours and interests are more typical of women as a group or of men as a group. (True to some extent, but arbitrary. These behaviours and interests have changed over time and are different in different cultures. Many are imposed on the sexes by the society they live in.)

This poster then concludes that the most appropriate way to classify people now is no longer by sex, but by how well they conform to the "typical woman" profile or the "typical man" profile, and then refer to them as women or men according to how well they conform to the male or female profile.

What he is forgetting is that you first need to divide people into the two sexes in order to decide what a typical male or female profile looks like. If you don't do this, you just end up with groups of people of both sexes who like different things: people who like football; people who like needlework; people who are good at maths; people who enjoy caring for children etc. In order to make any of these things typically male or female traits, you first need to divide people by sex.

Stop using facts and logic. It’s not fair on people who want to make up belief systems and impose them on people.

If a man wants to be a woman because he once painted his nails and ate toast then yes he should be in a woman’s college. Smith in else is literally violent death.

The other flaw in that argument is that transwomen have no traits or behaviours in common with actual women. Same goes for transmen, who have nothing in common with actual men. Everything I see of transwomen screams man, including their crude, simplistic and sexist notions of what women are. Transmen seem to try to emulate teenage boys or young men in their early 20s, but only cool and trendy ones.