EHRC draft schools guidance (mentions changing facilities for trans pupils)

[hethor]

I may have missed a thread, but there's some new draft guidance from the EHRC on schools out for consultation: www.equalityhumanrights.com/guidance/technical-guidance-schools-consultation

Notably, it gives this admirably clear example:

A secondary school is considering how to provide appropriate changing facilities for a trans pupil who identifies as a girl. The school must provide single-sex changing facilities and showers for children who do physical education at the school. It is therefore not permissible to allow the pupil to use the girls’ changing room. The school decides that the pupil must use the boys’ changing room. This is unlikely to be justified and so is likely to be unlawful indirect gender reassignment discrimination. A suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil access to a single-user, lockable changing room, which might be a staff changing room or a mixed-sex accessible bathroom.

Sounds clear enough, I like the way it suggests that staff changing rooms could be used, that might make activist teachers pipe down on the brainwashing if they've got to pay the price.

Thanks for this. It's always very telling that these guidelines are written by people with zero experience of managing schools or teaching PE. Zero insight into the safeguarding issues this generates:

Who supervises a child or children using adult changing rooms ? PE teachers sometimes have to change kit during the day (weather changes). Some staff leave bags etc in their lockable changing rooms. And since when has a toilet been a suitable place to change out of school uniform. Where will they keep their clothes ? Can't be left in a school toilet all lesson surely?
What if there are a number of children in a year group timetabled at the same time - say 2 girls and a boy? How does that work?
How many schools would be happy with random children wandering the corridors / out to a field 5 / 10 mins after the start of a lesson?
How does a school find the staffing to supervise this child (or children)?

So many questions - just off the top of my head. Off to have a look.

I thought socially transitioning a child at school was not encouraged - not exactly banned, but not encouraged.

Treating a boy as if he were a girl sounds like going quite far down the road of social transition!

The PC of 'gender reassignment' is being invoked here - is a boy saying that he is a girl and does not want to use the boy's changing room all it takes for it to potentially be 'unlawful indirect gender reassignment discrimination.'?

There are safeguarding issues in having a child use the same toilet/changing facilities as adults.

As MrsOvertonsWindow says - so many questions.

This is true of so much, the SEND reform proposals, attendance targets and so on. I almost feel anyone creating policy for any frontline service, including schools, should be required to go and work alongside a frontline role for at least 3 months before they come up with any plans. It really needs to be properly evidence based and thought through.

Schools have not enough money for adequate normal staffing as it is.

I've just seen on another thread that the Chief Inspector of Ofsted said :
All children should use the toilets designated for their biological sex to protect privacy, safety, and dignity.

That's pretty clear, no work-arounds for trans-IDing pupils.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/5538622-mnhq-here-ama-with-ofsted-chief-inspector-sir-martyn-oliver-8th-june-7-9pm?reply=152803804

Yes - I recall that single sex toilets and no mixed sex changing are in the draft KCSIE (safeguarding) guidelines which are due September. So Ofsted will be busy in the new academic year if parents report all the schools compelling toilet sharing and the (hopefully) tiny extreme minority enforcing mixed sex undressing.

Yes. These suggestions pop up repeatedly in "trans guidelines" for schools written by transactivist groups.

I've yet to see one that recognises the safety / safeguarding implications of having one of more children undressing in different areas, at different times, using spaces not designed for undressing, adult changing areas etc.

One day there'll be something written where children's safety and right to education takes priority over the demands for different treatment.

Seems to be implicitly using a 'no lower age limit in gender reassignment' argument.

I recall reading the other day in a Mumsnet thread that either the Supreme Court or the EHRC gave a lower aged limit of TWO for the Protected Characteristic of Gender Reassignment - but I haven't checked it out.

Definitely by 16 because that is when someone can start gathering evidence to apply for a GRC at age 18.

I hope TWO is not correct. I found that that staggering.

It's not unusual for a child to become gender-questioning, but to 'grow out of it' in the sense of coming to terms with their biological sex and how they are going to deal with gender stereotypes as they become adults.

Keeping school 'agnostic' on children's gender identity, but positive about the fact of biological reality, gives them space to work things out for themselves without being validated in what may be a temporary rejection of their biological sex.

It also defuses attention-seeking, which let's face it, some teenagers may, just may occasionally indulge in😏 because there will be no special arrangements or separate facilities on offer.

There'll always be boys and girls who are self-conscious and shy, and schools should be vigilant about any kind of bullying in single-sex communal spaces.

I don't really see the issue with changing in a toilet? as long as the loo has a seat that can be closed it's just a cubicle? It's not as if it's any more unhygienic than actually using a toilet is.

When I was in school the toilet cubicles were within the main changing room and were the most fought over option as they were the only option for a bit of privacy.

The child could just bring their bag with them and leave it in the gym/sports hall/teacher's office or whatever.

I think it would have been better to be more prescriptive and just say 'It is therefore not permissible to allow the pupil to use the girls’ changing room. Depending on practicality and individual circumstances the school may wish to consider options such as...."

Allowing the child to come to school dressed in their PE kit/change in the break before could be another alternative. Personally I don't see why all schools don't just schedule PE for one afternoon a week (e.g. YR7 Mon, Yr8 Tues, etc.) and allow all kids to just wear their kit to school that day - they can go straight home after so no need to sit in class smelly/dirty. Most kids hate changing/showering in school anyway, why not just avoid it altogether if possible?

I think it is correct - unbelievably. It's hard to believe that any responsible adult would argue this but it shows just how far GI has been able to wholesale undermine safeguarding children that respected legal bods and others will seriously tell you that this is the case. A child of 2 can want to change sex and must be believed and granted the "protection" of the pc of gender reassignment 😡

Its completely fucked up.

I’ve always said if I got into politics I’d want education. I’d then spend time travelling the country speaking to teachers, leadership, and support staff in the ground as well as consulting in a “tell me what is failing children and staff” exercise. It would be the biggest census of school opinion in our lifetime. If nothing else I’d get a fuck load of data for when I was inevitably sacked for trying to change it all in one go 🤣

I won't bore you with the practicalities of timetabling whole year groups for an afternoon of PE when there may not be enough facilities, staff, changing rooms etc etc needed to teach a whole year group.

Systems in busy schools need to be practical, ensure that children are appropriately supervised and that they and their belongings are safe. I'm afraid with respect none of your suggestions would meet that criteria.

I think it’s quite understandable that not making accommodations for someone with gender dysphoria who is severely distressed about their sex could be indirect gender reassignment discrimination. If it’s possible to reduce the distress shouldn’t they try to do that?

Then perhaps they could refer them to CAMHS because it's not really the schools job to help children who have mental health issues, they're educators not clinical professionals.

What about all the other children in the school would are going to be stressed out because they being told they have see someone they know as a boy as a girl.

This is about children and schools. All the evidence shows that children believing their uncomfortable pubertal bodies are wrong and that they're really the opposite sex have a host of other co morbidities including anxiety, eating disorders, self harm and more.
Adults in schools have no qualifications in dealing with gender dysphoria and to date the 'advice" from adult transactivists has proved to be catastrophically damaging to children and young people. (see this thread for today's example:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5541284-completed-and-linked-below-independent-patient-safety-investigation-into-prescribing-practices-at-wellbn-gp-practice-in-brighton-and-hove

This is a safeguarding issue and schools need to be really cautious about how they manage these issues

I haven’t had a chance to read this draft guidance yet but I’m confused about how this interacts with KCSIE. Does anyone know? It seems strange timing as we’ve only recently been asked to respond to a consultation on the updated KCSIE, which as far as I know has not yet been issued in its final form.

If there’s an OFSTED position, KCSIE and this guidance, how will “they” ensure all guidance is consistent? Specially if at least two are being consulted on / finalised at the same time.

Maybe I’m overthinking it…? Or maybe the point is to sow confusion…?

Trans people are going to exist and don’t have to hide away, so it’ll be good for them to learn how to be tolerant of others.

It’s not the schools job to treat mental health issues but it is their job not to discriminate, and the EHRC seem to think forcing a trans child into a single sex space could be indirect discrimination.

Even the single sex toilets can be cubicles or private rooms. The rooms will most likely be off a mixed sex cooridor.

Why, when the estimates are 3-5 rapes inside school premises per school week, are they making more private areas inside schools?

It still doesn’t leave any toilets suitable for children with medical conditions if all the toilets are private rooms.

Do they have any idea?

I suspect we'll be poring over all this in the next months. I haven't yet looked at the technical guidance but the fact that KCSIE now has a section on gender identity / children is a positive start. Ofsted's position will reflect the KCSIE guidance and all other DfE guidance (eg SRE /Health Ed, political Impartiality etc) so that should be coherent. If the technical guidance undermines this, then that's an issue.
At risk of being repetitive - there is a massive issue with the rights of children to be safeguarded from age inappropriate issues (for want of a better phrase) and the demands of Gender Identity. The fact that the protection of gender reassignment can apparently be applied to 2 year olds is outrageous and shows how little children's rights and safeguarding have been considered by those pushing all this.

Perhaps the tolerance that is being suggested should be directed towards females for a change. Trans people may exist but they also exist as their sex and their sex will never change irrespective of their own perception of themselves. I think they should learn early on that they will never change sex, that they cannot compel others to see them as they see themselves and that women and girls have human rights also.

I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that trans people change sex or that they should access opposite sex spaces. This is about alternative spaces for trans people that don’t feel comfortable/able to share with members of their sex. I don’t think that takes away from anyone else’s rights

Unfortunately it does. The safest designs are those in a single sex environment. Mixed sex environments mean privacy is prioritised. There’s no getting around that.

From my time reading this forum I understand you’re something of an expert on these things. What do you think the answer is? Single sex spaces are safer, but there are a group of people that are disadvantaged by them and will be less likely to go out if mixed spaces aren’t available