Article on "arguing with a TERF"

[MyAmpleSheep]

I love to keep up with the other side, so here's a lot of words just to say "it's complicated." meanwhile he ignores the obvious answer to his own question.

www.fasttrackfemme.com/p/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-with

That’s not how safeguarding should work if you cared about the occupant. You basically using the first toilet as an experiment to see if the occupants come to harm. Don’t you have any building control laws you have to abide by? Also, which blue city is the safe one you are starting with?

In which case, for goodness sake take a step back from the keyboard and go out for a walk, meanwhile considering if you really want to look that way, and whether perhaps it might be sensible just to stop digging? There is no shame in saying that you feel you are ceasing to be coherent and have had enough!

Its probably different in the US, but TM and non binary women developed apps to locate unisex loos.

When the SC ruling was issued, they suggested the TW could use those. They declined the offer and instead claimed they had nowhere to pee, and using unisex loos was 'outing'.

So its great that you want to find a solution to their problem, but the community has already suggested one that works, but they didn't like it.

Before you invest in these public potties, do your market research.

This is absolutely typical of trans group dynamics: transmen typically look for and implement practical solutions through coordination, while transwomen wail, are unable to work together, and refuse to settle for anything but the ultimate gold standard, no matter how unrealistic it might be. I saw this happen again and again when I was in the community.

What is a “blue city”? Should I want to live in one?
The prospect of the Porta-Potty being rolled down the high street by lads after closing time, confused (in more ways than one) occupant on board, makes me think of David Blaine. He came to the UK to show us his “magic” by staying in a see-through box with no food or other facilities. He got pelted with foodstuffs, it was a regular source of fun, “let’s go and chuck food at the American show off”

A blue city is majority democrat voting. Like San Francisco or New York.

I am saying this seriously like a pp said @MedicalConsensus do your research before spending any money. Many posters have given you lots of information here. I think it could be better spent that what is a brightly coloured chemical toilet.

in the UK trans people got the right to same sex marriage via the GRA from 2004. It was another 10 years before same sex marriage was rolled out to the rest of the population. I think youve got your facts a bit mixed up about who was helping who and why. The GRA was enacted largely by stealth but gay rights were won by swaying general public opinion fair and square. The T had to attach to LBG to benefit from their gains by deception. It had to be by stealth. Haven’t you read the infamous Denton’s strategy document that explains all this?

Portaloos have existed for a long time, we can use that data.
Unless too many people start using it, there won't be any difference from a normal portaloo.
Under International Building Code in the US (it's pretty similar to the one in UK too), single-occupancy and accessible toilets are already regulated for safeguarding, like doors to be fitted with emergency release mechanisms (like coin-turn locks) that allow external access by staff or emergency services or that doors must open outwards.
Based on CPTED, we don't even have to worry about loitering zones, and the access control is binary.

There isn't really data about portaloos, but we can look into the broader umbrella term for them, (which is what I'm generally advocating for, I just listed the cheapest version of them)
Washington, D.C. which passed a municipal regulation requiring all single-occupancy public restrooms to be gender-neutral in 2006.

ohr.dc.gov/page/safe-bathrooms-dc?hl=en-GB

The actual danger in the city was not the single-occupancy rooms themselves, but the lack of safe access to them.

And Seattle, which did the same in 2015.
content://com.google.android.apps.docs.fetcher.FileProvider/ida10GNBdtvZyNiVPlV6ONPgm0N8eC3txpy70d9BlTI%3D?_display_name=2015%20SOCR%20AR%20single%20final.pdf&mime_type=application%2Fpdf&_size=12803910

There was no recorded spike in violence and local advocacy groups reported a positive effect on safety.

There were 73 reports, but these were of things like businesses failing to update their signs.

www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/inquiries/3071/Report%20No.%204%20-%20Portfolio%20Committee%20No.%208%20-%20Customer%20Service%20-%20Public%20toilets.pdf?hl=en-GB

Says single-use cubicles that open directly onto public space are the preferred design over multi-stall gendered blocks

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/genderneutral-bathroom-a-new-frame-and-some-nudges/C6CDCA42BAEBCE684B243EB9773A771C?hl=en-GB

The shift toward single-stall bathrooms has been formally proposed as a method to reduce violence in public restrooms and combat bullying in schools.

content://com.google.android.apps.docs.fetcher.FileProvider/93wG5sM8Fv9WItOVQSyzsGPkSWtsBneRFuU43SzTKLQ%3D?_display_name=APSC%20262%20-%2002%20Washrooms%20-%20AL%20KM%20ST_0.pdf&mime_type=application%2Fpdf&_size=696859

This goes into vandalism repair costs in single-stall units, which should offer a good idea regarding portaloos too. (UBC APSC 262)

Didn't really felt like fixing the links

Trans people have kept rather quiet about the issues specific to their needs and helped us a bunch when we were fighting for the right to be legal or marry, and now it's our turn to help them back.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Transactivism has never done a damned thing to help LGB people. They actively campaign against lesbian rights to group together and create their own clubs and organisations. They have created the monstrous concept of the Cotton Ceiling, then give seminars on how to overcome it.

There is less goodwill towards the LGB community as a direct response to the false teaming of LGBTQ, and transactivism is what caused it by taking a giant shit on the Pride flag.

Transactivism doesn't want fairness or equality. It claims bonus, extra rights no other group of people has.

The best thing LGB people can do is divorce the TQ. Transing the gay away was just the start

If portaloos aren't good enough, there are plenty other alternatives which do the same thing.
I just have a mindset of always choosing the cheapest option to do the bare minimum required.

The largest, most comprehensive global app and database for locating safe, unisex, and gender-neutral bathrooms is Refuge Restrooms.
It was created and launched by a trans woman, Teagan Widmer.
It was built specifically to help all trans and gender-nonconforming people find single-occupancy or inclusive stalls because of the risk of harassment in traditional bathrooms.
www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/02/07/trans-woman-releases-bathroom-finder-app-refuge-restrooms?hl=en-GB#:~:text=Using%20the%20database%20of%20now,Widmer%20about%20her%20latest%20project.

The transgender community has historically been advocating for the expansion of single-occupancy, gender-neutral facilities precisely because they represent the safest, most practical option available.

The GRA 2004 did not grant same-sex marriage. It mandated divorce.

Because same-sex marriage was illegal in 2004, the GRA contained a "forced divorce" clause.
If a trans person was married, they were legally required to divorce or annul their marriage before they could obtain a GRC, to prevent the creation of a legally recognized same-sex marriage.

The GRA 2004 was not passed "by stealth."
The GRA was the direct result of a legal battle that went all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.
In Goodwin v. United Kingdom (2002), the ECHR ruled that the UK government was violating Article 8 (right to respect for private life) and Article 12 (right to marry) by refusing to legally recognize trans people. The UK government was forced to pass the GRA to comply with international human rights law.
It was debated in Parliament, widely reported by the media, and subject to standard legislative scrutiny.

The transgender community has historically been advocating for the expansion of single-occupancy, gender-neutral facilities precisely because they represent the safest, most practical option available.

Not in the UK they haven't.

Let's run a little reasoning on this.

Men who are trans are afraid to use men's public lavatories. But they won't be afraid to use lavatories that are clearly marked out as being for the use of trans people.

This really makes no sense whatever.

Or is it that you expect women who have been driven out of their own single-sex lavatories to use these substandard alternatives?

Just this. They have refused the suggestion with loathing when it has been put forward any time this century, on the grounds that they would be "outing themselves" if they didn't use the women's single-sex facilities.

As if women couldn't tell what they are! They are so amazingly silly. There is no need to out them: they're right out in the open already as soon as they move or open their mouths.

Anyone can use them. Thus people can't just assume anyone who enters is trans.

I was replying to your post which said this:

An LGBT organisation's purpose is to ensure the needs of everyone under the queer umbrella, and working on the image of trans people (which becomes the image of the entire community by association) by solving their need to request access to women's bathrooms, which is one of the most polarizing issues on the subject that creates such a negative reaction, will lead to a better outcome to everyone.

We have been saying for years that trans people should have access to third spaces so that TIMs can't claim that they 'have nowhere to pee' when they are banned from the women's loos and don't want to use the men's.

You seem to be agreeing with this, which makes you a TERF.

TIMs don't want this though. They want to be allowed to have everything that is for women. They don't want their own loos, they want ours. And they want them because of the women in them.

There’s a lot of places in the UK you couldn’t just plant a portaloo. We have planning regulations, conservation areas, historic town centres and neighbourhoods . Unsightly plastic units would not be allowed in many places. They don’t even have them in Camden Town where piss often runs down the main street. They do sometimes have temporary urinals which are thankfully quite unobtrusive. I don’t think TIMs would want to use them. Not that it is a remotely good idea or any sort of solution.

@OldCrone
"You seem to be agreeing with it, which makes you a TERF"

That would mean a lot of trans women are TERF, maybe even half, lol

I think you should post on reddit transgenderUK and ask if they think your portaloo plan is a good idea.

Then ask the wider LGBT community if they are willing to pay for the purchase, installation and up keep.

Then find out about planning permission laws in the UK.

Good luck.

Hm, sounds fun

I would for you, but I've been banned.

It'll take 5 minutes to write the post. We could see if your theory about just wanting to pee is true.

It enabled trans people to marry under their acquired sex. So a transwoman could marry as a 'woman' to a man, so same sex marriage by stealth.

I'll have to use your comment to get traction, else I'll be ignored. I don't think people want to respond to a random's idea