Article on "arguing with a TERF"

[MyAmpleSheep]

I love to keep up with the other side, so here's a lot of words just to say "it's complicated." meanwhile he ignores the obvious answer to his own question.

www.fasttrackfemme.com/p/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-with

I know no man who has, as it happens, but since I don't frequent the Gents my information is anecdotal not evidential. I have been asking, during the past few years when the hysterical "we have to use the ladies or we'll be beaten up" line was being put forward, and come up blank.

I think there were cases of gays being beaten up for either cottaging or being suspected of cottaging, back when there was also public gay-bashing which led to deaths, but that was really quite a long time ago now: fifty years or so. I suspect those cases may be why TiMs think themselves at risk, rather than anything more recent. (There was at least one gay killed some time in the late 1960s for propositioning a man who was aggressively straight, but I can't remember his name to look him up.) So many of the TiMs (and also TRAs) had not been born when the mere fact of being homosexual was a criminal offence, so beating up or killing a homosexual was not something the police bothered too much about....

Some gay men still enjoy the thrill of cottaging but nowadays Grindr etc mean that if you want to hook up with other gay men you don't need to proposition guys in the Gents.

Don't tell me, they all expect you to open their pickle jars because they are so weak?

That was my first thought. The breathless hyperbole. Dramatic statements. Sophisticated but completely empty rhetoric. The three of everything. The changing of one question to an entirely different question.

Sick of it I am!

So transwomen are allowed to be afraid to go into the mens purely on a perceived unevidenced threat but women aren't allowed to reject those transwomen in women's spaces on the grounds of actual danger, plus perceived threat, plus dignity, plus a history of having fought to have spaces just for themselves?

All 'women' are equal, but some women are more equal than others ehh?

Sometimes I struggle with jars of salsa. My husband is around for those very few occasions where it's been tightened by a Greek God.

You bet though that every jar I'm going to end up popping a blood vessel or two getting those things open.

I don't like being weak, I like being independent. Perhaps that makes me a transgender man to these people, since I'm not conforming to disgusting sexist stereotypes?

Maybe I can skip cutting off my breasts and invest in a jar opener.

Try banging the edge of the lid fairly smartly on the edge of a table. And or soak in hot water (just the lid).

Slip/wriggle the tip of a butter knife under the lip of the lid until you hear/feel a pop.

There's nothing to say what percentage of trans-identifying men are using estrogen, or for how long. It's certainly not a prerequisite.

What logical mechanism means a vulnerable male goes in with the females, who are far more vulnerable to him than he is to another male?

Men are larger, stronger, and commit 99% of sex crimes. What possible logical mechanism can there be to put them in with women?

they are slimmer and weaker than average men

😁

I wish this was a conditional they had to fulfil before wearing fishnets and a short skirt and downing the old cab sav while representing their cause on a filmed panel.

It's telling that so many men, on being told 'no', immediately pivot to 'you can't stop me'.

I just got an instant visual carousel of Karen White and Eddie Izzard and various other transwomen of yte brick shithouse variety

I just got the very unwelcome Fred flash back, as I often do in my nightmares 🕸🏀

You just have to let some air in, there is usually somewhere you can slide a bottle opener in and wedge the lid sideways to let the air in, and then it opens easily.

Why do you assume that these men are smaller and a weak target? There are plenty of counterexamples.

Look at this one for instance, he's built like a brick shithouse and has a threatening attitude to other men:

These work a treat. Much lower maintenance than a husband, and get the jar open every time. www.lakeland.co.uk/7706/jarkey-screw-top-jar-opener

So tiny, so meek, so unthreatening.

I can see why he would be afraid to be in the gents.

Do the toilets where we imagine tough men go to to attack other men exist anymore?

Its not going to be shopping centers, toilets in service stations are usually staffed. There's not the middle of town public toilets they used to be, and they're often closed or are enclosed single ones.

I hope other people in the thread can recognise what is happening here, so I wouldn't need to point it out each time

I found some figures for public toilet closures the other week and there are now two council-owned toilets for the whole of Bristol, neither of them near any shops. I forget the figures for other cities; that one stuck in my mind. Bristol has a population of about half a million....

True

Actually, it's a bit bad of me to leave it at that and not explain it on my own - if someone uses the word 'on average', it already implies there are exceptions, thus, you don't have to bring up the exceptions.

@MedicalConsensus
Most men are good men. Most men would intervene themselves or fetch help if another man or a boy was in trouble, of course that goes for men that are gay or trans too. Yet you want private designs. If men or boys can’t be seen or heard, how can they be helped?

The safest design is one that prevents bad things happening in the first place. You said you can’t have cctv in toilets so actual eyes are better than cctv. If a bad person thinks they may have a witness, the risk of getting caught goes up. You worked this before but that can you work out why your preferred private designs aren’t that great still, for anyone? Can you see why I say private designs are bad for everyone but least bad for healthy men.

Regarding bad men. Some bad men (convicted of sexual crimes) pretend to be transwomen when accessing women’s toilets. So how would you differentiate?