HMRC gives trans people access to VIP hotline

[HannahinHampshire]

‘HMRC gives trans people to VIP hotline’. Why do the records of transgender people require greater protection? I spent an hour waiting for HMRC to answer my call the other day and then I was cut off before I could speak to an advisor.

www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/cfbb2461a6f96ebf

Why even bother commenting if you've neither read the article nor the previous comments on the thread? You need a gender recognition certificate and all that entails to be able to access the PDI line.

I looked up Goodwin vs UK

this is utterly fascinating:

The Court also found no justification for barring the individual due to her being transgender from enjoying the right to marry under any circumstances. It concluded that there had been a breach of Article 12

so Goodwin (a man) presumably wanted to marry another man. Why on earth was this deemed a breach of his rights when every other gay man in the country was at that time also unable to get married to the person of his choice. It's so interesting the way 'trans' makes people lose their grip on reality

and despite all the patient explaining on the thread I am afraid I am still at a loss to understand why the state should be involved in helping an individual to attempt to mislead others about their sex.

Because trans people exist and are entitled to rights recognition and privacy much as many people on this thread clearly wish this was not the case.

the right to attempt to pressure others into pretending they can't tell what sex you are isn't one I recognise I'm afraid.

returning to the article for a moment, the 'special helpline' does sound like a bum deal

That's not what the "right" is and you know it. You are being obtuse.

The right is the one to not have your GRC / sex-change status outed to all and sundry by a third party (HMRC in this particular instance).

To give an example: someone in witness protection has the right not to have letters sent out to employers with their old name on. Someone who is in possession of a GRC has a similar right.

If nothing else, you are doing an excellent job of demonstrating why a person might sometimes need to conceal their trans status to avoid discrimination and harassment.

The right is the one to not have your GRC / sex-change status outed to all and sundry by a third party (HMRC in this particular instance).

There does not exist a single person in the whole history of humans who has changed sex. The law should never have pretended otherwise. It's not fair on the person themselves to affirm the lie, and it has led to a fracture in society - as lies always will.
The GRC is the lie and the prevention of 'outing' is to protect the lie.

Biologically, no. I agree.

Legally, we have a system where people can be considered the other sex. Whether that's right or wrong is whole other debate - the fact is that it's the system we have right now and under that law those who've undergone gender reassignment have particular protections, as does anyone who has a protected characteristic.

Organisations, like HMRC, therefore need to manage client data accordingly where it's relevant for them to do so. Hence the access to the PD1 line.

Someone else may have pointed this out already - I haven't read to the end of the thread yet - but HMRC does not deal with pension entitlement (that's up to DWP) only how much tax is paid on that pension which has nothing to do with one's sex or gender.

Well yes. That's kind of what I said. We have embedded a lie in our legal system and procedures have had to be built up around that lie to protect it, of which the special hotline is one. People who object to the legal lie will probably object to the support systems too. I don't think you will find many people objecting to witness protection schemes and their support structures.

According to the government website, it's HMRC's responsibility to inform the DWP when someone legally changes gender since you can't update this information with them directly

The reason is because of you, and people of your ilk. You know that, and that's why you don't like it. The idea of trans people being protected from people who hate them, or the idea you could be unknowingly working alongside a trans person and missing the opportunity to bully them is the problem.

PD1 is absolutely nothing to get excited about - it’s more of a ball ache than normal HMRC.

If you’re PD1 your online access is usually very limited (that means submitting paper tax returns!) and it’s actually really hard to get through to anyone on the phone. I have ended up calling the normal number and the getting them to email the relevant colleagues to ask for a call back, it’s so annoying.

It’s not just celebs, politicians and trans people, there are loads of MOD and MOJ employees that are within PD1. All judges and retired judges are, for example.

No one else has the right to keep their sex private for official purposes
Why should people who have acquired a falsified birth certificate have that right?

It's scarcely possible to keep it a secret in real life in any case, and even if it were, it's at the very least morally ambiguous to do so in certain circumstances.

No. I'm not on board at all with the notion that it's some sort of right to conceal or attempt to conceal your sex.
There are too many circumstances where it needs to be known.

I see. So am I allowed to conceal the fact that I'm a woman in order to avoid misogyny and sexual harassment?
If not, why not?

So what rights nd privacy do trans people not have that everyone else does?

This article is really overstating the supposed "exclusivity" of the HMRC helpline.
That's the same line I had to use to update my tax credits when I was a lowly caseworker for an MP.
No idea why people that work for MPs had access to it. Never did me any good anyway because I would invariably forget the special number and have to ring to normal one to get redirected.

So why do disabled abd gay people not have access to this hotline?

Are you literally this thick? It’s not even a special hotline and it’s definitely not designed to queue jump or get your query dealt with better. It’s sensitive data related and it’s not just for trans people. Why would a gay or disabled person need to use it? What sensitive data does HMRC hold on them?

You can do what you like. If you don’t want to state your sex that’s fine. I can’t remember a time where I had to state to colleagues that I am a woman. Obviously that’s not going to impact on whether I experience misogyny.
The trans thing is different because the very essence of it is a change of legal sex and seeking to present to the world as the opposite sex to that at birth. Sometimes fairly successfully, sometimes not. Someone finding out your trans status and previous name might not be what someone wants, even if others argue that it’s obvious to the world that they are trans. It’s still a privacy thing and something people are entitled to keep to themselves if they want. Same as how it’s private that someone is gay or disabled.

Please tell me how someone’s sexual orientation could be revealed in their tax return? And how HMRC would hold that data?

The pension ages for men & women were equalised in 2018. Nobody getting a GRC needs to inform HMRC to update their pension entitlement to reflect their new legal sex because their pension entitlement is the same regardless of sex.

Sure, if you want. You can even fully identify as a man, if you want. That's kind of the point.

What "circumstances"?