HMRC gives trans people access to VIP hotline

[HannahinHampshire]

‘HMRC gives trans people to VIP hotline’. Why do the records of transgender people require greater protection? I spent an hour waiting for HMRC to answer my call the other day and then I was cut off before I could speak to an advisor.

www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/cfbb2461a6f96ebf

Well sure, but given that this is the system we have, it seems weird for the telegraph to be suddenly making a big thing about the fact that the HMRC is simply administering the data implications of that system.

As someone said above, it is pure rage bait. The telegraph knows that there are a lot of people pissed off about HMRC delays who can easily be frothed up into outrage by the thought that trans people are queue-jumping and the telegraph is always keen to find new ways of trying to make us think that tax collection is evil.

But there aren't enough people with GRCs for their marginally better tax service to make the service provided to everyone else any worse than it would have been. And there are probably other random reasons why some people get a better service, too. Perhaps you do better if your surname begins with a letter higher up the alphabet, or if your call happens to go through to Call Centre A rather than Call Centre B, or whatever other white noise effects a huge system

It is obviously rage bait though. You don't have to know anything more than the article says to see it's just written to wind people up, it's not actually anyone else's business how trans people interact with HMRC, nor does it affect anyone else.

You could also have spent 2 seconds googling and you would have learned both that this is a longstanding policy and why it is in place.

I still think some trans identified people might feel they are being treated differently, because they don't have a GRC, because if they didn't know about the "special hotline" before, they probably will now. But, I guess that's their lookout.

Trans people through necessity are usually fully aware of the processes they need to go through to update their data and don't need The Telegraph to tell them about it.

Ffs.

I also have a "VIP" line for HMRC due to my job role being considered in need of protection.

It takes just as long to get through, in fact, it's frequently not answered at all, and when it is, they normally have to call me back when an authorised person is available to talk to me.

I also have to call for every issue because I'm not able to have an online account for tax.

In short, it's a PITA. How sad that trans people are at risk of violence simply for existing and paying tax.

It is strange when we have transpeople on one thread saying they have absolutely no paperwork saying their sex, its impossible for anyone to know their sex. Yet we have to fund a helpline to ensure that this information that doesnt exit, remains a secret.

i hear you on the rage bait thing. It’s a stupid, pointless article. I’ve just always been so puzzled by people who are obviously role playing as members of the opposite sex being so paranoid about their ‘trans history’ coming out. Literally everyone who meets them knows. It just seems the height of lack of insight

Surely tax and pension rules are based on sex and as per the ruling (and what society has historically understood) that means biological sex. You cannot change your sex so why would any rule/law around tax and pension change if you have a GRC. Ridiculous. I feel sorry for those HMRC employees having to call Dave Dianne and pretending with pronouns etc and potentially getting into trouble for misgendering.

No doubt this only benefits TiMs.

A person's trans status isn't relevant, which is why this doesn't apply to every trans person. But if you have a GRC your legal sex has changed for the purposes of your pension entitlements. Most companies if you change your legal sex can just update your sex marker and your record can be dealt with as normal as there is no reason anyone accessing it would be aware the marker has changed. But for HMRC, they can't simply expunge your previous legal sex without messing up your pension, so they have to retain the information that the sex marker has been changed, which is effectively retaining the information that you are transgender. This is special category data under GDPR law and as such these records can only be accessed by certain members of staff to protect the customer's confidentiality.

Hmm

gay people have a right to privacy and to protection from harassment. Homophobic abuse is definitely a thing. Are you saying that the answer is for the state to help gay people keep their sexual orientation a secret?

it's not actually anyone else's business how trans people interact with HMRC, nor does it affect anyone else.

Unless its funded by pride, it is our business.

I can see that some people will require very specialist help, and it makes sense to have experts answering their calls. I suspect its the older people who're close to retirement who have had obvious male and female tax codes in the past.

The Supreme Court ruling only applied to interpretation of the Equality Act. It does not undo the fact that trans people with a GRC have legally changed their sex in all other aspects, including pension entitlement.

Yes? You’re under no obligation to disclose that you are gay at work or anything like that. Are you unaware of privacy rights?

Well, yes. Sexuality is also special category data under GDPR law. It's irrelevant here though since - obviously - HMRC does not collect information about people's sexuality.

Indeed

but no special secret HMRC helpline for gay people, no?

Well if you tell me why speaking to a gay person would involve sensitive or particularly confidential data (which it does for a trans person) then maybe we can talk about it.

No, because HMRC does not collect information about sexuality so you're not at risk of being outed in conversation with a member of staff. Keep up.

I get that. But if you accept the principle that the way to give people privacy and protect them from harassment is for the state to do its best to help them keep things about themselves secret (even if they’re super obvious to everyone who meets them), then can gay people not get their marriage records made top secret?

But what is the confidential data? Their sex? Why is it confidential?

A marriage certificate does not record information about someone's sexuality, sex or gender.

according to google While the word "sex" or "gender" does not appear, the law still requires marriages to be registered as either opposite-sex or same-sex.

so you kinda can tell someone’s sexuality by getting information about their marriage I think

My god. The wilful ignorance on display. Because they are trans and have legally changed their sex (not biologically, legally). So the HMRC records would out them and they might need staff with slightly more training to deal with these calls. It’s not that hard to understand. Just as someone might not want to be outed as gay or disabled, some trans people don’t want to be outed as trans.

I seriously promise that this doesn’t take away staff from dealing with everyone else’s tax issues. There aren’t hundreds of trans people swamping the special helpline daily.

It's not their sex, it's the fact that they have (legally) changed their sex. As I've explained about 8 times now, HMRC accounts have to retain the information that the sex marker has changed to calculate the pension correctly, which effectively meaning they are holding information that the customer is transgender - this is what is protected data.

No, this isn't true - a marriage is a marriage, nothing about the record officially states any involved individual's sexuality.

Marriages are also notoriously non-compulsory so if someone really wanted to avoid having a marriage certificate they can choose to just not get married. Whereas having a tax record is compulsory.

It's amazing people will twist themselves in knots ignoring the laws and the facts and the explanations as to why this is done for some trans people, but no one's questioning why on earth politicians need their own special phone line and can't just wait on hold like the rest of us.

I’m afraid I still don’t understand why the state needs to put itself out to help people keep their sex a secret. I agree that the state has no business making it easy for others to find out. But putting active special measures in place?

it’s very much like car number plates in my opinion. Anyone who knows me can look at my car and know my number plate. I don’t want the state to make it easy for people who don’t know me to find out my number plate, but no super special measures are required

likewise anyone who knows me can tell what sex I am. I don’t particularly want the state to make that information universally available but no special measures to keep it secret are necessary

I don't agree, it's just an article, and I thought it was interesting. The first thing I thought was that other trans identified people were going to complain, and would they end up in court, but that's just how I think! Then I thought of all the others, too - nobody likes HMRC.