M&S Colchester claim mixed changing is ‘completely safe’ for women.

[PeachOctopus]

How is it that M&S can continue to flaunt the high court ruling and do not offer single sex changing rooms?

Abouterf in this video confronts the store manager and is fobbed off and told that it’s head offices policy:

Colchester @marksandspencer I asked where the women’s changing room was to try on swimwear. Manager Andrew (he/ his /him) says gender neutral changing areas are “completely safe” for women and girls. For asking him this question, he told me to leave the store.

Abouterf x account

Is there actually a man in there, it isn't clear from the video?

If there is, I'd see it very differently - he's ineffectual and dismissive. If there isn't and the changing room is as empty as the shop looks, then she's spoiling for a fight and it's a bit cringe, she shouldn't be picking on him and putting it online.

Never, because I’m not that paranoid?

That's the problem: it's mixed sex. Well done for noticing.

The large department stores do this because they are short staffed. Think back to 5 years ago. Most of them had a children’s fitting room, at least 2 ladies fitting rooms, a lingerie fitting room and a men’s. Now they just usually have 2 open for everyone.

It’s got nothing to do with big departments being inclusive and everything to do with cutting costs.

I worked for them for years and am so disappointed by all of this.

No, that's being naive

Check out XNXX or VoyeurHit or xHamster or XVideos or TNAFlix or any other of the myriad of sites that offer videos of women and girls undressing in mixed sex changing rooms and using mixed sex toilets

Two is exactly the right number to have 1 for female and 1 for male.
No extra expense incurred there?!

It is NOT breaking the law. There's no law that says all shops selling clothes have to have changing rooms at all, or, if they do that they have to be sex-specific.

The law has (after the recent SC ruling) been confirmed to specify that IF a relevant facility (e.g. a changing room/toilet) claims to be single sex THEN that refers to biological sex. So IF the M&S changing rooms had a sign saying 'Female' THEN they should be for biological women only. If the changing rooms say 'Gender neutral' or similar, which apparently they do in the shop in the video, then anyone can use them and nobody is breaking the law.

Unfortunately this was always going to be a foreseeable likelihood of GC campaigning - it's always going to be cheaper and easier to just make everything GN than either build a third set of facilities (or fourth if including accessible facilities for people with disabilities) and/or strictly enforce who accesses which ones.

Think about it for a second - there have always been shops that don't have any changing rooms at all, and ones that have one changing room or toilet (again this also meets legal guidance as long as they are completely enclosed, e.g. sink and toilet behind one closable door) for everyone - did you assume they'd just been happily breaking the law for decades?

Maybe check your facts first?

They aren't breaking the law and this is a huge misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the recent updated guidance that I keep seeing repeated.

The guidance states that if you're offering a single sex service this needs to be based on biological sex, however it does not mandate that service providers have to provide single sex service, it is still entirely legal to offer gender neutral provision.

M&S isn't breaking the law. They're under no obligation to provide single sex changing rooms. Unisex changing rooms are legal provided that they meet certain conditions such as having lockable doors and that they are not marked as being single sex.

If they do provide single sex changing rooms which are marked as such, they are not allowed to direct men into the women's, or vice versa.

Regardless though, she is arguing with the wrong person on this point. She needs to talk to head office.

Her filming him, following him shouting about having to change with men is totally over the top and the wrong way to make a point. In no way is her behaviour reasonable, even if her underlying point is.

I wouldn’t want mixed changing rooms in say a gym or swimming pool but I don’t see the issue with lockable cubicles in a store. A lot of places, especially smaller stores, only have space for one. This is a personal view but I do not see the point in harassing a worker over anything like this. It’s not his personal policy, he didn’t build and design the store. There is no point shouting at someone over this. Email head office, start a petition, don’t harass powerless retail workers.

@IMakePointsWhichHoldSignificance
, that ain't a bag, it's a shipment! Sorry, couldn't resist

M&S isn't breaking the law.

Are they not breaking the law by providing single sex fitting rooms for men but not for women?

The online reviews they allowed grossed me out so much I haven’t found it hard to stop buying clothes there. I still buy food but that’s reduced

If M&S has a changing room near all of the women's clothes, and a changing room near all of the men's clothes, both signposted 'fitting room', would it be reasonable to expect that one is for men and the other for women?

I think most women would be shocked to hear a man on the otherside of the partition. Lots of men would be uncomfortable if they heard girls too.

If mixed sex changing rooms are safe and wanted, why aren't they more upfront about them? Why say "Fitting Room", and not mention that they are for both men and women?

Except many of the M&S stores still have a men’s changing room, it’s just the women’s they’ve opened to all.

Yes, if they provide single sex changing rooms for men but not women that would be discrimination

They are very obviously breaking the law if they advertise it as a woman's changing room and let men in.

Agree I find this disgusting. No one has the right to treat shop staff like this while they are at work.

But they don’t advertise it as that. They advertise them as fitting rooms. That’s it.

I no longer shop at M&S (even online) for this very reason. I used to do most of the clothes shopping for my family there. I will stay away until they respect the law.

@frumpydump that's interesting - have you got any evidence that all M&S stores advertise all of their changing rooms as just 'fitting rooms'? I haven't been to my local store for a while but I remember they were always advertised as men's or women's.

I need to go into our city centre next week. I'll make a detour into M&S for a nosey.

Obviously this isn't proof but it suggests that M&S are still advertising changing rooms as male and female.

M&S Denies Changing Room Policy Is Unlawful After A UK Campaign Group Raises Concerns | Hotspots Magazine

Note that it says, "many locations historically used generic Fitting Rooms signage".

The use of the word 'many' instead of 'most', or 'all' suggests that some locations will still use male or female signage. This is particularly likely given that Sex Matters took the time to get involved.

In which case M&S are breaking the law.