M&S Colchester claim mixed changing is ‘completely safe’ for women.

[PeachOctopus]

How is it that M&S can continue to flaunt the high court ruling and do not offer single sex changing rooms?

Abouterf in this video confronts the store manager and is fobbed off and told that it’s head offices policy:

Colchester @marksandspencer I asked where the women’s changing room was to try on swimwear. Manager Andrew (he/ his /him) says gender neutral changing areas are “completely safe” for women and girls. For asking him this question, he told me to leave the store.

Abouterf x account

Sending your pre-teen daughter into a mixed-sex changing room, with cubicles that can be used by anyone? After a man who was in there previously set up a hidden camera? You don't want to understand, do you?

Exactly. I’ll go one further; my son is gay and as such, has absolutely no interest in women. Should he be allowed into women’s changing rooms?

I’ve stopped shopping in M&S since they ‘upgraded’ their stores. Just find it hard work. I’m not so bothered about mixed changing rooms as long as they are individual cubicles and they are staffed. I just go to Uniqlo, Next and Primark (t shirts, hair scrunchies ) instead.

I think M&S are trying to aim for the younger market but the 30’s and under I know wouldn’t be seen dead in there. (I was quite happy to buy my work clothes there in the 80’s, most of us did).

I agree. I don't agree with that person filming, but the manager could have said, put the phone away and we'll discuss your concerns.

I imagine his response was probably more to do with his dislike of being confronted and filmed, but M&S are going to have to get a grip on this. If they are mixed sex changing rooms, this needs to be clearly signposted. If they are "women only" then they cannot allow any men in, no matter who they are.

I often visit that store and never knew this. Ive not seen male or trans in the fitting rooms, only men waiting on the sofa outside for their wives/friends etc. The fitting room areas aren't large mazes so its not like anything untoward could be missed. Also lots of staff floating around, minimum x2 each time to keep eye on very small area of fitting rooms.

At least M&S have lockable cubicles - Uniqlo just have a fucking curtain.

GAP used to have mixed sex changing cubicles.

There's a difference between anything dodgy being missed, and anything dodgy happening. They need to do all they can to stop it happening in the first place.

I think what will happen is lots of women will end up not using the changing rooms. And whether they buy something or not will depend on how easy it is to return the item.

I think M&S is betting their profits of men trying on and buying bras every week.

This is my experience in M&S, individual, lockable cubicles and staff on hand. What about this set up would make anyone feel unsafe?

Incredible that he asks her to leave the store because she politely asks why she should have to get undressed with men.

She's not being polite. She's being deliberately obtuse and following him after he's spoken to her, and filming in the hope of getting social media points.

She doesn't have to get undressed with men.

The store manager has no control over head office policy.

It isn't illegal as long as it is mixed sex and doesn't exclude heterosexual men.

Are the changing rooms fully enclosed, of do they have gaps at the top or bottom?

I'd question that they are staffed the whole time. Unusual staff have to get other sizes for people of take clothes back to the racks.

I've worked in customer service roles before and would absolutely hate it when people would take their aggression out on me. I 100% agree that single sex spaces are important, nevertheless, what does this woman expect the shop worker to do about it? She is aggressive, annoying and actually out of line for filming this man and plastering his face all over social media.

if indeed it is a mixed SEX fitting room then that should be made very obvious and M&S should state that as policy they are unable to provide single SEX fitting rooms so customers can choose to shop there or not.

They do provide single sex ftting rooms. But only for the men.

Agree.

Firstly, as much as I agree they should, they don't legally have to provide changing rooms at all, let alone female only ones. If you disagree with that the way to impact relevant shops is to not to buy stuff from them rather than blaming a random employee for not risking being sacked by going against company policy.

I can't imagine anyone has ever said "well I did think X but after being shouted at, filmed and slagged off online I thought wow the opposite side might actually have a point and completely changed my mind!"

I thank the lord that filming people wasn't really a thing when I was working at Asda. It was an absolute nightmare when the carrier bag charge came in.

"Why are you forcing me to buy a bag?"

"Those are the new govt rules, I'm afraid you'd have to take it up with them" (Firstly, I'm not making you do anything, secondly you're not being forced to buy a bag, there are other options open to you)

"Why are you forcing me to buy a bag??"

How would you protect your pre teen son from the same thing happening? Or does than ‘never happen’?

@FinchiePink are we watching the same video? He's really rude and condescending. He turns his back on her and storms off, when she's trying to raise a perfectly reasonable concern.

He could easily have said, "I'm sorry you feel that way but it's our national policy. If you'd like to make a complaint then may I ask you to do x,y,z."

Instead he says, "it's perfectly safe" which simply isn't true. We know transwomen have masturbated in the women's changing rooms at M&S because they have shown off about it on social media.

We know that transwomen have hidden cameras in women's changing rooms.

We know that 62% of transwomen in prison in the UK have convictions for rape or sexual assault.

He's condescending to her because she describes a transwoman as a man, and he's obviously one of the minority of people in the UK who thinks a trans identified man is a type of woman.

He turns his back on her and storms off, when she's trying to raise a perfectly reasonable concern.

He walks off, certainly. And she may be trying to raise a perfectly reasonable concern, but she's not doing it in a reasonable way or to the right person. We also have no idea what went on before she decided to start filming.

He could easily have said, "I'm sorry you feel that way but it's our national policy. If you'd like to make a complaint then may I ask you to do x,y,z."

What exactly do you think he's doing when he says "if you need to take it up with head office, please see them"?

he says, "it's perfectly safe" which simply isn't true.

I agree, but one ignorant statement from him doesn't necessitate him being followed and harangued about something he doesn't have the power to change.

I don't know if it 'never happens' with pre-teen boys. I imagine that, and worse, happens to boys as well.

The point is it's the men doing it, whether it's in a mixed-sex changing room (which they are allowed in if it's labelled correctly) or in a single-sex changing room (which needs to be correctly labelled and monitored). If men are allowed in to female single sex changing rooms, that is illegal. If a man has installed a hidden camera in any of these places, that's illegal.

The point is, it's the men doing it. If you don't want a man secretly filming your child, deal with the men. The solution is not to just make everything mixed sex and throw up our hands and hope for the best.

Because it is, ffs.

You go into a wide corridor of monitored rooms. Lock the door behind you and changed.

You go into a wide corridor of monitored rooms. Lock the door behind you and changed.

At what stage do you sweep the cubicle for the hidden camera placed there by the man in a dress who just exited the cubicle?

@FinchiePink he's hardly being 'harangued'.

M&S policy is breaking the law. Women have a right to single sex spaces. When she politely tries to point that out to him he dismisses her with, 'take it up with head office,' turns his back on her and swiftly walks away.

When she tries to explain her perfectly reasonable position, he literally accuses her of being 'abusive,' calls her 'madam' in a sneery way and tries to kick her out of the store.

It's fortunate that she was filming what happened, because asking him a question after he turns his back on her and storms off is hardly 'abuse'.

Or the man in usual male attire who just exited the cubicle. Because it's mixed sex.

Women have been unhappy about the changing rooms in M&S for some time. And have complained about it in the acceptable ways suggested here. Nothing has changed.

Meanwhile, men regularly boast about their experience trying on underwater, womens clothes and being fitted for bras.

I do feel a bit of sympathy for this man, even though he was dismissive and has no customer services skills. But at it has gained attention that other complaints haven't.