M&S Colchester claim mixed changing is ‘completely safe’ for women.

[PeachOctopus]

How is it that M&S can continue to flaunt the high court ruling and do not offer single sex changing rooms?

Abouterf in this video confronts the store manager and is fobbed off and told that it’s head offices policy:

Colchester @marksandspencer I asked where the women’s changing room was to try on swimwear. Manager Andrew (he/ his /him) says gender neutral changing areas are “completely safe” for women and girls. For asking him this question, he told me to leave the store.

Abouterf x account

Exactly this.

M&S are indirectly discriminating against women by having a policy where changing rooms are mixed sex.

This employee on camera is the evidence of that policy.

The man walks off dismissing her reasonable request. She is then asked to leave the shop for asking for a single sex space which they won’t offer her. He tries to imply it’s because she’s been aggressive or raised her voice but she only increases her volume because he walks off instead of finishing the discussion in a polite way.

All this is because both M&S and this staff member believe that it’s OK to discriminate against women.

Unfortunately for them - it’s not ok.

And the PP on this thread who seem to think that the woman is the unreasonable party here need to give their head a wobble. Recording discrimination on film is completely fine imo

The woman filming should make a small claims court application against them. Sex Matters has a guide on how to write the pre action letters etc

And so should lots of other customers - if they won’t listen to all the reasonable complaints perhaps they’ll listen when it starts costing them time and money?

Getting evidence for the police or to prove a beach of the law is one thing. This is NOT what has gone on here. This retail worker has been publicly humiliated and shamed and it should be illegal.

Hopefully one of the outcomes of this is it highlights the abuse of staff in retail and make filming like this illegal.

None of this is illegal.

The M&S shop staffer was unlawfully discriminating on the basis of sex - indirect discrimination due to lack of provision of a single sex changing room for swimwear

The customer was filming on private property and could have been asked to stop. She might have if asked but we will never know because the staff member instead decided to ask her to leave the shop due to her unpalatable (but lawful/protected) beliefs. Thats now unlawful direct discrimination on the basis of belief.

You have a problem with the customer’s manners and seem to think that’s the bigger problem with this story; that she shouldn’t be allowed to protest like this. your opinion is fine and some will agree with you but I don’t like it when women are shut down for being shrill. It’s sexist even if you are perhaps struggling to recognise that in yourself.

However the law already prevents filming for privacy reasons on private property. So Youve nothing to fear if it happens to you or someone you know. Simply ask them politely to stop! And if they don’t abide with the rules about filming then call security. But in the public realm you have no rights to prevent filming unless it’s to be monetised

Back to the matter in hand - I think that M&S shouldn’t have this changing room policy which has been hidden from customers. Because they chose stealth rather than polling customers theyve left their staff members vulnerable to this sort of stunt. Regular complaints dont work amd haven’t for years. It’s maybe not what I would do but it’s been very effective and I won’t criticise a woman for standing up for her rights in a legal way - assertive but not aggressive - against blatant sex discrimination.

To put it another way - What other way could this customer get evidence of M&S policy and how it manifests other than getting video?

I agree. The only victim here is retail staff.

I fear how far it’s going to go.

What action do you fear exactly?

Oh your video went viral ive seen it

Would you feel safe with someone pointing a camera at you asking you to contradict your employers policies? Knowing that if you don’t comply they are going to post the video it to an audience who are ready willing and able to dox you?

Safe 🙄

He was wearing a pronoun badge by choice so I think it's a fair assumption that he has no problem with their changing room policy.

I agree the staff member should have asked her to stop filming. I agree that filming is a guerllia tactic and not “nice” but she’s not obliged to be nice. I wouldn’t like it but she’s committing no offence - unlike M&S/this employee

She also wasn’t asking him to go against policy - he could say it’s M&S policy and I hear what you’re saying etc but all our CRs are trans inclusive or mixed sex or whatever they call them. Youll need to write in to HQ and tell her how.

He doesn’t have to express any personal belief or judgment- but unfortunately he did express his belief and asked her to leave the shop.

(ETA - he could even say look I agree with the shop policy and we will have to agree to disagree etc.)

But thats a digression- I was asking about your statement - you said “I fear how far it’s going to go”?

You implied there some fear of action beyond filming? Or future unlawful/illegal action by the customer? What were you referring to?

Given the rape and death threats, physical attacks, doxxing, and coordinated attempts to lose them their jobs that women have experienced over the years from trans activists, it is interesting to see the level of concern here for this male employee. But he is misrepresenting the situation and telling her something that is not true. He cannot possibly promise her that women are “completely safe” in a secluded part of the store, where they will be partially undressed, and to which M&S are admitting men. M&S are taking a calculated risk with their policy, and he as his employer’s representative is asking her to take a calculated risk too, so that should be made very clear.

Bullying and publicly shaming retail staff like this should be illegal.

Interesting how you say what M&S are doing is illegal. Sex matters say that they COULD be breaking the law. Let Sex Matters take them to court if they’re so convinced it’s wrong! Leave retail staff alone!

I don’t care whether the filmer is female or male. I would still have called out this shitty tactic. I’ve not mentioned the sex of the person filming in any of my posts that’s you making assumptions about me. Shame on you.

I agree the staff member should have asked her to stop filming

I didn’t say that she should have stopped filming so you have nothing to agree with.

I agree that filming is a guerllia tactic

Again, I didn’t say that it was so nothing to agree with.

and not “nice” but she’s not obliged to be nice.

I haven’t said anything about “nice” so I’m not sure who you are quoting here.

My simple question was “would you feel safe… “ you can read the rest for yourself in the post.

I’ll read/ respond to the rest of your message once you stay on track.

The underlying point is that a man has told a woman what is and isn't safe. Would you like to be told that? Bearing in mind that he has no idea what experiences she's had? I'm sorry if he feels publicly humiliated but I've worked in front facing roles and I was taught the Radio 4 rule, which was 'if you don't fancy explaining it on the Today Programme it's probably best not to say it.' Maybe M&S need to teach their staff not to patronise and try to shut up women?

Can you please describe what you think is bullying behaviour in this clip?

Sex Matters comments about unlawfulness were to do with the CR provision - indirect discrimination possibly.

In this clip the store manager appears to directly discriminate against the female customer on the basis of belief asking her to leave the store.

Can you answer the question as it was originally posed please?

You have prevaricated a bit about safety and filming etc, but your comment implied you fear further action beyond filming - what is it that you fear?

How exactly are women supposed to protect ourselves against made-up accusations that we were being 'abusive' unless we whip our phones out and film conversations about our legal rights?

Loads of us have tried writing to M&S and emailing M&S. They simply aren't interested in women's legal rights. Perhaps now they will be forced to stop and think about it.

To all those ‘uncomfortable’ with a shop worker being videoed -
HE WAS THE MANAGER OF THE STORE!

I was talking in general terms. But there is no doubt by sharing this on social media this has resulted in publicly shaming the member of staff and may have for all we know resulted in him being bullied as his details have been revealed publicly. All of that should be illegal.

If groups like sex matters are so convinced that the law has been broken by M&S let them put their money where their mouth is and take them to court.

Ok so that makes it ALL ok…

HE WAS THE MANAGER OF THE STORE!
Ok so that makes it ALL ok…

Yes it does. This isn't a random shop worker he is the manager. He is the public face of M&S at that store.

I completely disagree. Just because you’re management doesn’t make you fair game for any old shit

Just the power to dole out any old shit, eh?

You were the one that responded to my post posing a question without answering it. I know you want to shift the narrative. I’m happy to indulge you, I really am, and I know you’re not used to people pressing their point.

Once you’ve answered my simple question I’m more than happy to chat about anything you like.

I guess I’m wondering why are you unable to admit you're not scared of people filming you without consent and posing it online?

Unless you are scared. In which case why?

Oh yes of course managers can say whatever they like and not get into trouble. Clearly you’ve got limited management experience.