Why is it that the trans issue is the only one where people are cancelled if they disagree with it?

[TFImBackIn]

I was thinking today how there are people who vote differently to me, who are carnivores or vegan, who believe in capital punishment, who believe in unregulated drugs, who do or don't believe in climate change, who follow different religions, who think nobody has ever landed on the moon and so on, but it's possible to have a discussion about it - even if that ends pretty briefly in "We'll have to agree to disagree on that" - and it doesn't end in someone being cancelled.

The trans debate is the only one - as far as I can see - that's not allowed to be debated. I've not heard of people disowning their families over any of the above topics. If someone disagrees with someone else on those topics - and a million others - nobody says they're being violent and they're afraid of them and need to get away from them and be safe.

What Rachel Dolezal told everyone she was black and people discovered she wasn't - and worse when she wanted to represent black women and their struggle - then black women everywhere were allowed to say she was wrong and that their struggle and lived experience wasn't hers. There was no argument at all - maybe Rachel muttered a bit about it but everyone felt free to ridicule her for taking that on.

How come, then, when a fifty-year old Philip Bunce - "Call me Pippa or Pips" - was ranked number 32 in Top 100 Women in Business, women weren't allowed to say that was unfair and that our struggle and lived experience wasn't his?

What is it about this particular issue that makes people want to silence us, when other topics can be freely discussed?

Because the activists are utterly demented?

It’s a men’s rights issue.

Because the people it punches down on are women.

Expand your horizons and you will find Jews for being Jewish, or anyone supporting the right of Israel to exist, or anyone or business even remotely connected to Israel are facing harassment, initimidation, ostracisation and cancellation on an even worse scale than GC women faced, terrible though that has been.

So no, it’s not just GC women.

Very good points OP that I completely agree with.

It's the only way of enforcing a lie on society - that sex change is possible and a positive option for children. Everyone knows it's not true so people have to be threatened and bullied into silence to allow it to flourish.

Which is where we are now.

No, sorry, it's not the same. People all over the world can have reasonable conversations about Jewish people and the state of Israel. I don't know anyone who says they are going no contact with their own mother because she said something about the war.

Yes, you will have people who'll be outraged at any particular topic and might go on marches, etc to protest, or refuse to shop in certain places, but they don't totally cancel people who believe the opposite. Debate is possible on all of the other topics I can think of.

I do agree with this, but it's women who are cancelling other women, too. Daughters cancelling mothers who are trying to keep safe spaces available for their daughters, to keep sport fair, to make it possible for them to win awards etc. I just don't get it.

I don't agree it's the only thing that gets you "cancelled", there are plenty of examples of people being "cancelled" (however you define that) for other noxious opinions.

I don't think it is like the flat earth example at all however. If someone believes the earth is flat, ok, I don't agree but ultimately they are not harming me or anyone else so crack on. "Gender critical" beliefs however often go hand in hand with monstering and bigotry against a group of people, some of the language I see used to refer to trans people is so unpleasant and dehumanising, it is plain there is a deep streak of hatefulness in many if not all people in the movement that goes way beyond just protecting women's spaces. I see it and many others see it as akin to racism or homophobia, ie not something which is tolerable or on which you can simply agree to disagree without it significantly affecting your perception of a person and your desire to associate with them any further.

My brother (who is in his 30s!) doesn't speak to me or my mother anymore because we are, I quote, 'excusers of genocide'. It's very unpleasant. There most certainly is angst within families over this issue.

Definitely, and not just on the issue of anti semitism/Israel/Gaza...but on a whole raft of political issues. Younger, radicalised people are rejecting their families on account of all of this stuff.

In fact, the Israel / Palestine conflict and the Gender conflict are the only ones where death threats to the opposing side are seemingly very common and accepted. Only from one side, in both instances, of course. 'Kill TERFS'. 'Death to the IDF' Etc etc.

I don't think its the only thing.

I don't think we should, as westerners, be welcoming Muslims into our country as I wholeheartedly believe Islam goes against our progessive views. It is completely at odds with womens rights, gay rights and many normal freedoms we have in the UK. For example 2 young girls in my local town were told by an Islamic preacher that they 'deserve to be raped' for wearing shorts (a video posted on a local page).
No women in shorts do not deserve to be raped, no women should not be forced to cover themselves head to toe to avoid mens behaviour, it is not NORMAL for women to be made to cover themselves up. And theyare made. Some may argue its a choice but when the choice is 'cover up or lose your whole family/risk being honour killed /be ostracised by your community' its not really a choice is it?

But I imagine my post will go 'poof' for saying what I believe.

It used to be the case that posts went poof for saying anything about transwomen being men. But now the general consensus on here is that is the truth and its allowed to be posted.

But you cannot criticise Islam despite this being a site for women and Islam quite obviously being a huge source of oppression for women here and around the world.

Because it’s men. We are not allowed to argue with or contradict men. It’s very simple.

DeepWinterSleep
"Gender critical" beliefs however often go hand in hand with monstering and bigotry against a group of people,

Literally the only monstering I have come across during this idealogical "no debate" is of JK Rowling (a sort of ultimate Hitler-figure, apparently).

I call DARVO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

In the matter of the Israel/Palestine conflict, Unnecessaryletter, the threats may all come from one side, but the actual deaths seem disproportionately to be caused by the other. So far, thank God fasting, most women have not been subjected to physical violence (or killed) by the people threatening them: I only know one who was actually attacked and knocked to the ground because she was perceived as opposed to gender ideology. There have probably been others but that's the one I can vouch for. I know of not one single instance of a woman violently attacking a man because of his trans beliefs, however he was dressed. Maybe DeepWinterSleep would be able to give examples.

This is all completely untrue. You are clearly not in any communities of Jewish people or their allies. This absolutely is breaking families apart and longstanding friendships. There is 100 percent total cancelation of Jewish and Israeli artists and performances and freelancers who are targeted the mob. The Jewish Chronicle recently ran an article on requests they get from Jewish people who have previously been named in their articles asking for their names to be removed as they worry it will harm their future job prospects if a potential employer googles their name and finds out they are Jewish. That's in the UK.. As for ' people can have a reasonable debate about the war' . You sweet summer child if you actually believe this. One of my friends just today posted about how she had five minutes of being screamed at in the street for being a genocider and baby killer just because she dared to offer a moderating view to the genocide allegation. This level of reaction is common. I've had abuse just for supporting UK Jews against the racism they are facing. You have clearly not at all being following what is going on. And yes it really rankles that someone who has clearly not bothered to look into this at all, confidently dismisses that there is any issue.

I've been fighting both the GC course and both fighting anti-Jewish racism since October 7th and believe me, awful though what happened to GC women was, it is nowhere near what is happening to Jewish people and to Israelis or anyone perceived as connected to them.

So being as you clearly are no involved in this, yet confidently believe you can dismiss the knowledge of those who are, I do wonder what your motivation is in denying the extremity of what has been happening. Is it because you are wedded to your victim status as a GC woman? Or is it that your views on the ME means you don't want to face up to how badly ' your side' has been behaving?

I see this completely differently. You talk about monstering and bigotry, but the most vitriolic attacks have been towards women who are trying to protect those spaces. The deep streak of hatefulness you mention is something I only see against women protecting those spaces.

I don't see it as akin to racism or homophobia at all. None of us are saying people shouldn't wear what they want. We're saying that women and girls have the right to privacy in the bathroom, to compete against equals in sport and to not put up with people talking about chest-feeding and pregnant people. Women didn't have a voice for so long and now we're being silenced again. It's interesting that the transwomen don't think they should be silenced, but so many people believe women should be.

People who have expressed concern about the changing demographic's of the country have been hounded out with calls of racist, racist racist for decades. It laid the ground work that created the climate of intolerance that has allowed GC's to be hounded out of jobs and the public square. All things are connected.

Though the difference is that TRAs have not actually murdered any women for their GC beliefs as far as I am aware. Charlie Kirk is the only person I am aware of who has been murdered for opposing gender ideology. Aside from this, the threats have remained threats, distressing and life impacting as the threats are.

Jews on the other hand are again being murdered in the West, in the UK, America and Australia so far, as well as other violent assaults, because of the beliefs of the ' other side'.

Yes, you are completely right.

I don't see it as akin to racism or homophobia at all.

You say that but then I see other posts on this forum and other fiorums calling trans people perverts, fetishists, deluded, mentally ill, narcissistic, abusive, advocating discrimination against them, and frankly I don't believe you that it is "just" about women's rights and not about hate or bigotry.

Simply not true. Lots of political or moral positions are considered beyond the pale by other groups and will get you ‘cancelled’ if the opposing groups have the power to do so. Holocaust denial and white supremacy for a start and I’m sure there are many others.

There was a time not so long ago when some of our elected MPs could not even have their own voices broadcast on the radio or TV.

Simply uttering certain phrases in a public place (or having them written on a placard) can get you arrested under terrorism legislation which is about as ‘cancelled’ as you can get.

Yep, we openly said NO to them. They are besides themselves in fury, hence they see death threats and rape threats and "die in a grease fire" and all the rest of it as fully justified responses.

Completely agree OP

Kate Clanchy was cancelled for supposed racism, though I think most sensible people would agree that she’s not a racist. Her cancellation was particularly brutal.

But she seems to be the exception, in the U.K. at least. I’ve long thought that the vicious intolerance of trans activism is an integral part of the package. What they are proposing is so insane that suppression of dissent is the only way of getting it accepted.