Do you avoid the bathroom if there is a transwoman?

[PeachyDaisy]

I’m going to an industry event next week and I know there will be a transwoman attending. Should I use the disabled bathroom to avoid an awkward encounter or just continue to use the women’s and hope not to run into them?

CAIS is very rare. It's amazing how well informed we've all had to become about vsd to protect women's rights. I bet people are not so well informed about rare conditions that can't be weaponised against women protecting their sex based rights.
If CAIS is phenotypically female even if genotypically male then Spidey senses shouldn't tingle. I note that there is a comorbidity of osteoporosis as per xy (and xxy) bodies with low testosterone, and conversely xx bodies with low oestrogen.

“I think people with DSDs are treated unfairly on here, that’s all.”

And that is what I am pointing out as your political aim.

Why is that political? Genuinely don’t get what you mean, sorry.

As a biologist I knew about CAIS already. Also some other rare medical conditions that have nothing to do with the sex chromosomes.

That would depend on your field as a biologist. I have some rare diseases in my family that even medical professionals are unfamiliar with. I doubt most people would be familiar with CAIS unless impacted by it.

People with DSDs have been used for ages by genderists as a wedge issue to enable trans identifying men to access women’s spaces, because it makes it “too complicated” to be fair to everyone, ignoring the fact that these are rare conditions that are nothing to do with trans.

I'm happy to answer. I don't know anymore about people with CAIS than can be gleaned from the internet, but if a person with CAIS has been socialised as female and has received no benefit whatsoever from testosterone then, in theory, I would not be unhappy with them using spaces for women. However, there are several caveats. The first is that it would not be morally right to fail to inform them that they are, in fact, biologically male. Secondly, where sports are concerned, there is a lack of information as to whether they do actually have an advantage over biological women and further research does need to be done. Thirdly, it is apparently quite hard to differentiate between PAIS and CAIS and so the 'slippery slope' to testosterone-responsive men in women's spaces remains open. Fourthly, I do not trust medical professionals or charities purporting to represent people with DSDs to consider the needs of biological women when advocating for any particular group of biological males with a DSD.

So, if women on FWR seem to be treating some people with DSDs unfairly it is because they are being used by misogynistic activists to take advantage of the kindness of strangers to overcome safeguarding. That is why what I would be content with in theory, is not necessarily the same as what I would advocate for in practice. Take it up with the TRAs, as PP have said.

Which is why people on here get pretty hacked off when it’s brought up over and over again.

I’m not sure what your point is. One person with an extremely rare medical condition may (or may not - I’d be interested to see the thread where this all happened - maybe @Notmeagain12 could dig out the thread seeing as he or she has such a clear memory if it?) have been upset by discussion on a public forum where they revealed their unusual situation and therefore invited comment.

Because of that vanishingly rare occurrence, we are all being chastised for holding the line for fact and sanity because we have learnt by bitter experience if we give 1mm to the trans activists, they will run with it forever and we will have men in women’s toilets claiming rare conditions en masse.

It is that simple because it is a fact that DSDs are either an anomaly of male sexual development or an anomaly of female sexual development and there is no third state. Misdiagnosis and mistakes in thinking your child is one thing then finding out they are not are personal things to deal with but still not a problem for us to sort.

It is relevant who started it because we are not the ones weaponising these conditions for our own ends.

So much sympathy for one anonymous, possibly real person on the internet (we only have their word for it) but so little for the situation in which we currently find ourselves.

Disabled toilets are usually floor to ceiling walls/doors with a washbasin inside as distinct from your usual conference/office loos with spaces underneath and above, and a shared row of basins outside the loos. Unisex in one is not comparable to unisex in the other. Noise, smells, blood, the remote but always present chance of aggression ... very different in one to the other.

So what sex are they? If they are not male or female, what is this third sex called?

The thread has moved on a long way since that post.

If it's such a big deal to you you could make a point of using the bathroom at home or somewhere nearby near the event before going in, drink minimal fluids at the event then using the bathroom nearby after leaving?

Except for old age or certain medical conditions that should work for most.

Amd so could transwomen. Rather than using the space for validation, which many do. Separate facilities don't cut the mustard as there aren't any validating women in there. Why do women have to feel uncomfortable so men can feel 'euphoric'?

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't consider peeing "euphoric". Unless you're trying to play the "trans people are only trans to be perverts" card, if so that might explain why the gender critical movement has a bad name amongst much of society and alienates a lot of people who otherwise could be allies?

Take a look at Reddit, and you'll see what I mean.

It's not the peeing that produces the euphoria. But you know that.

if so that might explain why the gender critical movement has a bad name amongst much of society and alienates a lot of people who otherwise could be allies

Evidence please

You misunderstand me.There are two sexes. Some people with DSDs have features of both. And I don’t think a poster on MN gets to tell another poster who has CAIS, for example, whether they’re a male or a female. That’s for them to decide with their doctors’ assistance.

(Just to be clear, I don’t think anyone who has undergone a male puberty should be competing in women’s sports. With CAIS, more investigation is needed regarding fairness in sports.)

I'm sorry, that ship has long since sailed.

Women need men-free spaces. End of.

The idea that they should individually risk assess whether this particular man is only shyly and sincerely bashing their boundaries and upsetting/excluding women who can't share mixed sex spaces, or is one of the ones who plans to wank loudly with the cubicle door open while sneering at the women that they can't stop him because he identifies as a woman, is ridiculous. What a man claims might be going on in his head at the time is irrelevant to women.

No men. The End. As the SCJ confirms.

But this does prove that all the wangling and mention of DSDs is solely to continue to try and force women to submit to men in their spaces.

Edited to add: if someone thinks women who need single sex spaces, or who argue and care for women excluded from everything if men selfishly invade women's single sex spaces, is nasty and should be shunned then frankly that's a 'them' problem, and it has major issues with misogyny written all over it.

And I don’t think a poster on MN gets to tell another poster who has CAIS, for example, whether they’re a male or a female. That’s for them to decide with their doctors’ assistance.

No, they are biologically male. They have testes. What needs to be decided is are they going to live their life as if they are a woman and to what extent should (biological) females accept that.

It is that simple because it is a fact that DSDs are either an anomaly of male sexual development or an anomaly of female sexual development and there is no third state

I mean, you can get a chimera where a male zygote fuses with a female zygote (twins) to form one foetus. Some cells are XX and others XY. Often that affects sex development though not always. Which type of developmental anomaly would you classify that as, male or female? Very rare of course.
But I don’t think you can ignore people just because they have unusual medical conditions.

I do have sympathy for the GC position too.

I already do this.

Or men could just piss in spaces aligned with their sex like they’re supposed to. Just a thought.

Allies to reality?

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't consider peeing "euphoric".

Well, neither would I. But it seems you have a lot to learn about some members of the trans community.