Male "autism" and abusive behaviour

[SpiderPlantBoogie]

Hello. I'm posting this here as 1) it's my most usual stomping ground (under different names) when I go on MN, 2) I think it does relate to some of what we talk about on this board, and 3) I also don't want to cause testerical shouting, and trust the intelligence and nuance of the women here.

I've long been concerned about the massive expansion of "autism" (including self-ID autism) and am glad we're talking about it more. (Along with lots of other psychiatric categories, but that's another story). I'd also like to think/talk/read a bit more about the overlap of abusive behaviour (including coercive control) - often but not exclusively from men - with "autism". The leaps from "I like things a very particular way" to "...and so you have to tow the line or I will make sure you suffer", and from "I struggle with people" to "...and so don't expect me to think about anyone other than myself", seem much narrower than I would like. I'm pretty close IRL to a number of people this seems to apply to, and it can clearly devastate other people's (often primarily women's) lives.

Obviously (I would hope we all agree) we don't want to contribute to more discrimination against people with disabilities. But with these particular disabilities (which often stretch traditional definitions), that "always the victim" rhetoric is potentially so dangerous.

I'm sure this must have come up before. Can anyone suggest things I might read on the topic?

PS I am, of course, absolutely not talking about all people with autism diagnoses here. Also this probably doesn't apply much to people with clear intellectual disabilities; probably more to the new-style diagnoses than the more obvious difficulties which would have been diagnosed even decades ago.

Exactly - I think it is a combination of ND and the culture in the home. If the man of the house gets to rule on the small things (brands, colour schemes, holidays etc) but the woman has to facilitate these (does the shopping, finds the right duvet set, searches for hotels) I think the men become entitled and see their "role" as being demanding with a female facilitating their desires.

This is vile and disgusting IMO.

Looks like OP has decided to hate on men with autism and is using the knowledge they have to try to manipulate others into hating men with autism too.

The world can be an especially scary place for people on the spectrum and finding a routine and what works for them (which can mean things being a "particular way") is being twisted into "and so you have to tow the line or I will make sure you suffer".

"I struggle with people" yes this is a very common trait for people on the spectrum too and it's disgusting to twist this into "...and so don't expect me to think about anyone other than myself".

"Can anyone suggest things I might read on the topic?"

You know what you're doing. How about sitting down instead?

Really? Have you not read the detail in OP’s post? Or the experiences of other people who have commented?
Op was clear she wasn’t talking about all autistic people, or all abusive men. She’s talking about a subset where autism perhaps cements controlling tendencies into behaviour which not only impacts others badly but is in effect abusive.

Toe the line

"Op was clear she wasn’t talking about all autistic people"

It certainly sounds like it, as if the intent was to stir up hatred against men with autism. As if having a disability wasn't hard enough.

How predictable. Inevitable, even.

Ok I'll bite, how should people react to behaviour like that then?

Sorry but that won’t work. The safety of women and children comes before anyone’s sensitivities about neurodiversity, to me. Please read my post further up. This really is a massive problem.

So women should just shut up and put up and not even wonder if there is a line or where that line lies?

I have one son diagnosed with Autism. His dad has suspected autism but no assessment. I was with him for many years, before the suspected autism. He would be violent and extremely controlling when it came to me seeing my family. He was my first serious relationship, and I was from a difficult family. He made me very much believe it was me who needed to change my behaviour and then he wouldn’t react like he did, often using my family as an example for why I behaved like I did.

Behaviour such as him being up all night messaging my female friends, other females or making me jealous with his relationship with work females, were my unreasonable expectations of him. Of course I shut up and tried to please him even more.
I got a split lip because some dodgy porn site he visited somehow posted a link to his Facebook and I didn’t know how to remove it or why it was on there.

Had a child with him which was actually when the violence started to increase, I hadn’t left the hospital before he’d already pulled my hair.
Again it was constantly how I behaved that made him react.

It wasn’t until he started having issues at work with a boss who the ex had met his match with, that I could see who he actually was. He then went for therapy and without mentioning anything about our relationship and his behaviour, he was told he should have an autism assessment.
That man then went onto do so much research into Autism that he would seem an expert. He would then lash out at me even more physically, verbally was a whole new level of absolute abuse, and say “it’s autistic meltdown, you’ve caused it by constantly provoking me” never once any accountability.

Here’s the part when things changed and yes I do believe wholeheartedly that he is essentially an abusive man, and will be towards female partners.
Our son is now older, I’ve experienced his autistic meltdowns, I’m his main vent to them as he feels safest with me, but the difference is once he’s had his meltdown he will always be mortified, he will always apologise, we go through together finding out the triggers and what we can do differently and slowly these meltdowns are reducing as he’s getting older and knows what’s acceptable and what isn’t. My child is 35 years younger than his dad and far more emotionally intelligent, doesn’t ever tell anyone that it’s his autism or use it as an excuse and never will.

When I saw that our child started to appear more reasonable than his dad, I left.
The thing I’ve found hard is seeing a therapist myself and going through everything that happened in the relationship and the therapist saying “Is he autistic”. Even if he is, that doesn’t make what I went through, and some of what our son heard ok. It doesn’t make it ok that he seems to have studied autism so he can get away with behaviours rather than changing them, to have not done any work other than blame mainly me for apparently my behaviour.

In my experience as the mother of a formally diagnosed teen boy with autism and the ex partner to a man suspected of having autism, I agree with you. But I hope with everything within me that no one will be writing like this about my son.

As your son grows, talk to him about relationships- there are things I desperately wish someone had told DH! We’d have found our way through much quicker.
The thing is, I believe this generation will do relationships better because they generally know about autism. They are in a much stronger position to assess what is and is t acceptable, what is and isn’t working.

No, thanks - I don't fancy "sitting down" in relation to abusive behaviour, especially when it's in a complicated, explained-away context in which we're often told to shut up.

Thanks for your perspective, though - it has shown me again how important this discussion is.

Well it's a good job that women have the right to divorce and that no fault divorces are established in law!

My neurotypical mental health is equally as important as exH neurodiverse mental health, and no further justification is required.

As both an autistic person and a victim of domestic abuse, I’m upset that you are conflating autism and controlling behaviour. Wanting routines, struggling socially, behaving rigididly etc are nothing to do with harming, controlling and abusing people.

Plenty of us autistic people work hard to be considerate and kind, even though we have many genuine difficulties.

PPs are obviously right that some abusive people may also be autistic. What worries me with the OP is that this can slide into a narrative of ‘autistic people are morally suspect’. I’m particularly upset about the ‘new style diagnoses’ which sounds super dismissive. I have a ‘new style diagnosjs’. I have been bullied all my life because I have no ability to understand body language, facial expressions and take on board inferred meanings or hints. Half the time, i don’t even know when people are being mean to me. I have a degree though, so I am intelligent.

I do agree that being autistic shouldn’t be used as a get out of jail free pass for bad behaviour but let’s avoid turning a turning a disability into a proxy for bad men because the 2 things are totally and utterly unrelated.

Paul Louden - Behind the Locked Door - not read it myself but I’ve heard it’s good . It’s about autism.