Concern about Plaid Cymru and women’s single-sex spaces in Wales

[GreenEyedFeminist]

Plaid Cymru is leading in the polls and could team up with The Greens. This will be a disaster for women in Wales. Plaid have been instrumental in pushing for policies that dismantle women’s rights to single-sex spaces and sports. The Plaid Manifesto is very vague on what it will actually do for women (like implementing the Supreme Court Ruling - Welsh politicians are very fond of the phrase Waiting for Guidance) but very specific on the subject of trans rights… full implementation of the Wales LGBTQ+ Action Plan is promised - that means males self-identifying into women’s spaces and sports. On the rare occasions when Rhun ap Iorwerth is questioned he says it’s ’a fringe issue’ 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’m really worried atm.

Can you explain that further please?

Where I am, I thought / was told that the only way to stop the reform councillors getting in (a real possibility here) is to vote conservative as the other parties have barely had triple figures in votes in last few elections, so will never win over tories or respect unless votes are made for the only other party likely to get the seat surely?

@Gwenhwyfar I guess we just disagree; I don’t think more is necessarily better.

Oh dear. Who told you that? Haven't you seen any of the latest polls? Conservatives aren't doing well at all.
We will have complete PR this time. However, with votes under about 12% some parties will not get any seats so those votes could be wasted. Cons may well get under this threshold in some seats so I don't think you've been advised well at all.
But hang on, you mentions councillors? Are you in England and talking about the local elections rather than the Welsh Senedd elections? If so, you're on the wrong thread.

Where in the UK are you?
My comment is only applicable to the voting system in Wales for the Senedd elections. That's because we are now not using the First Past The Post (FPTP) voting system as used for Westminster and UK council seats.

Anyone feel happy sharing who they might give their vote to ? I have voted PC in the past, not always but more than for any other party. I really don’t like how the party is going though. Lots of Corbyn fans here are now voting PC and getting involved in the party.
I am absolutely at a loss who to vote for, I see the Heritage party have candidates, I just looked them up… crikey. There is also Gwlad, and a few independents.

I'm seeing a lot of polling suggesting that the Greens and Reform are also both going to do well, so heaven help us.
I can't believe I'm typing this, but given the choice between PC, Greens and Reform, I might hold my nose and vote Reform.
But whatever way I vote, I shall be writing RESPECT MY SEX across the ballot.
(And don't tell me that would be a spoilt ballot, a friend who has worked on the count says it's not. The only reasons a ballot is void is if it's not clear who the vote is for, or the elector identifies themselves in some way.)

Lib Dems are also committed to the gender woo I'm afraid.

I will be holding my nose and voting reform.
Heritage party are too much for me so I just can’t.
Gwlad might be a good option for you but there is no candidate in my constituency.
I thought about voting conservative but looking at the predictions it looks like they are pretty safe to get one seat where I am but very unlikely to get a second so a vote for reform will have more influence

It’s so difficult. DH and I both at a loss. Dd 2 (first time voting) will probably vote Plaid, Dd1 forgot to sort out her postal vote as she has exams, but she also had no idea who to vote for .
There were a lot of ardent Corbyn supporters here, and they seem to have, as mentioned above, defected to the Greens but also Plaid.

Yes, but as it's a clear vote, it won't need discussion or be shown to the candidates. Probably only the counting staff will see it.

A friend who has worked on the count said that on the first round only ballots with a clear vote and nothing else, go into the piles to be counted. Anything else is put in a separate pile for further checks. At this point it would be clear that it's a clear vote, and counted.

All the candidates are allowed observers, so they will be aware of comments, particularly if they are clear, memorable and seen on multiple papers.

I've been an observer and I didn't see all the comments. However, a couple of times I didn't stay to the end and left at midnight. This time counting will be during the day so a bit easier for staff and observers.

If you want the comment to be on multiple papers, there should be an organised campaign I suppose.

The should be a box on every ballot form for the voter to add a comment , mine would be A Pox On All Your Houses.

I've been politically homeless for the last few elections - Senedd and UK so spoiled my ballot in each one. Plaid have been particularly awful since the Helen Mary Jones debacle if not before and they are just getting worse. I don't know how they get back from all this nonsense and only time will tell how far they'll push it. I have no confidence that the UK government will rein in any of PC's plans in terms of Self ID as I fear Labour themselves are still very much wedded to it despite claiming otherwise.

This time I'm voting for Gwlad but I realise they aren't standing in all constituencies.

This ⬆️.
Rhun Ap Iorweth’s “it’s a fringe issue “ stance on this strikes me as someone who is trying hard to placate voters who are concerned, whilst trying to keep hold of all TWAW voters by keeping it in their manifesto, but essentially knowing that it’s not a devolved issue. Typical slippery politician.

I’ve explained this so many times on MN from personal experience!

Candidates and their agents are shown all potentially spoiled or unconventionally marked ballot papers by the Returning Officer or Deputy Returning Officer, prior to their being rejected or accepted. The candidate and/or agents is permitted to voice an opinion. This process tends to happen with groups of ballot papers, over the course of the count.

Each party’s nominated scrutineers (who are allowed closest to the counting tables) will also likely see comments written on ballot papers, or notice spoiled ballot papers; though their primary function is to spot ‘X’ marks quickly by party by ward postal district by type of vote (ie postal, or via ballot box on the day), and collect that data for the Campaign Manager for prediction, postmortem, and future campaign use.

‘Observers’ in the hall might literally see nothing much. Most of ours seem to chat among themselves in the seating area or be pissed at the bar.

I'm voting Reform for the first time, purely because of Plaid's misogyny. I predict a Plaid/Green coalition though. Turnout will be interesting, voter apathy is strong in Wales, and who can blame the voters after over 25 years of Welsh Labour?

Ok, then I got my terminology wrong. I was a scrutineer, not an observer. In fact, we all were, we didn't have people just sitting about and you only get a certain number per party (about 10?). I was watching the counting agents and looking at the ballots. I've done it a few times and don't remember candidates being shown any ballot with any comment on it, just those where there may be a doubt, but as I said, some of those times I didn't stay till the end.

This is quite dangerous. Reform is more misogynist. I think turnout should be quite high as it's the most exciting election in a long time.

What else do you expect him to do? He can't be gender critical as he'd just be thrown out as leader and replaced by another one.

Yeah, that would achieve something!

I'll bet it won't be as high as the Brexit referendum in Wales, when voters thought they could really make a difference. Wales voted for Brexit, to the Welsh Labour government's disgust.

This! Plaid would still have to comply with UK legislation on single sex spaces although I suspect they will do everything they can to bring in gender woo by the back door. They're not quite as batshit as the Greens and Reform. I think they will have bigger fish to fry than this issue - sorting out the NHS and education will be the top priorities.

How can anything be more misogynistic than a political party declaring men can be women, and treating women disagreeing as bigots and evil?

I agree ⬆️
Reform may want to send women back to the kitchen (and I'm not convinced they do) but at least they don't want to erase them from the narrative of the human race.

PC are the party that is still pushing for the ban on PB's to be lifted, the last time they brought it up nobody else voted for it but all of the PC drones did.
If they don't even know what a women is then the chances of them knowing what a sound fiscal policy is, is minus Zero.