Jane Clare Jones, her friends and their impact

[catspyjamas1]

Following the JKR (JK Rowing) fallout about pronouns, JCJ (Jane Clare Jones) is all over X / Twitter and she has thoughts on everything... That includes taking multiple aims at Kelly-Jay Keen (KJK) and her methods like this: https://x.com/janeclarejones/status/2049176034373739007?s=20

JCJ has also taken aim at the Pronouns are Rohypnol
https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/ essay from Fair Play for Women.

Anyway! The point of my post is to get a gauge of womens thoughts about JCJ and her friends / colleagues / "comrades" on the current discourse after the JKR fallout. How many women actually pay attention to JCJ? She contributed to one thing in parliment once (?) - what else has she done that has reached the culture at large (in the way that KJK has)?

I have zero interest in this thread and am hiding it. Goodbye👏

I don't have an opinion about the different 'factions'. When I was on twitter a few years ago I was very 'Oh my God the gender criticals are falling out!' Now I'm 'oh, this again '. I'm fascinated by the different voices on Twitter but I'm not sure there's anyone who's fighting gender ideology who I would block. I disagree with a lot of people on a lot of things but still value their opinions.

I can't remember about JCJ in particular. Is she an academic? Or a writer?

I never really 'get' these head girls versus ultras threads, but in answer to your direct question, I did enjoy her Annals of the TERF Wars.

https://janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

Yes, this.

A certain section of the “Gender critical” community really takes the word critical to heart.

Also, to have been in this for a long time you have to be pretty disagreeable (as opposed to nice/accommodating) to start with and after doing it for 7 or 8 years you'd probably feel even more stroppy. I'm definitely more waspish now than I was two years ago when I first started discussing this online.

"This is not an airport, no need to announce your departure"

Academic.

I felt that the editorial board of Radical Notion - a JCJ group publication - had a very narrow agenda and a more broadly based magazine might have managed to survive longer.

By and large, I think JCJ is great and I tend to agree with her. Can't say I agree with her on everything because I don't know her views on everything.

And what are your views on her current comments that I shared in my post?

My only experience of JCJ is me being a complete newbie on Twitter and naively pointing out her Prince obsession was maybe just slightly not in keeping with her principals if O'Connor was to believed....Oh my God! How naive of me! She argued with many dizzying wordy tweets that she already knew it was problematic, but that she had come to some sort of academic conclusion that this was surmountable. Due to theory. Or something. No idea.

I got such a tirade from her and her followers, and I sheepishly left Twitter very quickly.

Sorry that this was off topic. But I've steered clear ever since. When I first came across her I thought she was fantastic, but....nah.

Yep, pretty much this. Also her over-the-top defensive fighty reaction to people pointing out that she is - er - wordy. You don't have to be wordy to be intellectually rigorous. Some might even say conciseness is a virtue that leads to clarity.

Since you asked, I greatly appreciate JCJ's contributions on Twitter and the like. Her criticisms of KJK are very reasonable if you're concerned about the rise of the far right.

I do find the regular ganging up on her for being wordy/academic and the like tedious and all the personal attacks extremely unpleasant, although wish she could just ignore it instead of getting so involved.

I get why she's upset and some of the stuff on Twitter is insane at the moment.

There's a "conversation" going on between FWS, Akua Reindorf and some unknown where FWS and AR are being berated for not getting the GRA repealed.

Just what the unknown has done in campaigning other than shout insults from behind a keyboard is not obvious.

JCJ and KJK both have their flaws tbh. Can’t be arsed with the superiority from Jones and less willing to support Keen now she’s speaking at a Stephen Yaxley-Lennon event. But there’s not a woman alive who I agree with 100% and I’m grateful to them both for how they’ve helped the gender-critical cause.

I love jcj. She’s been very badly treated on Twitter imo.
on another subject, was Prince autogynephile?

No, but there are credible reports of abusive sexual behaviour towards women. But it's ok in his case, because 'jouissance'.

Fair warning, mentioning JCJ is like saying Beetlejuice three times, and she will write a million word long blog post about how we're being mean for saying she's wordy.

I never knew that GC feminism needed its own Richard Seymour, but we got one anyway.

Anyway! The point of my post is to get a gauge of womens thoughts about JCJ and her friends / colleagues / "comrades" on the current discourse after the JKR fallout. How many women actually pay attention to JCJ? She contributed to one thing in parliment once (?) - what else has she done that has reached the culture at large (in the way that KJK has)?

My thoughts are that all of this absurd playground drama reminds me of the Moldies fallout on MN. It's got everything to do with being too much online and not much to do with anything in the real world.

I’m pretty sure the other person is that Italian woman who was very active for a long time - and had a lot of interesting things to say, but she fell out with lots of people and finally went off in a huff. Alessandra something??

She said today (the new persona) that she’s a human rights lawyer in China but her Twitter account is based in Italy.

(As I recall, I had a lot of sympathy for her positions, but I’m not interested in purity spirals, and she was somewhat extreme in that respect.)

Ah yes. She was angry for a long while because she said ‘some things’ that were dismissed but when JCJ and the crew said the ‘same some things’ they were accepted and Alessandra said they had cancelled her. Gosh the drama.

I actually got sick of it all 3 weeks ago and left Twitter. My mental load has significantly improved.

I respect JCJ for her academic accomplishments and her research. But I also think she has arguments she should rise above because she often is intellectually superior and enjoys putting people back in their boxes - but progress doesn’t work that way.

I enjoyed that, thank you.

I read Annals of the Terfs Wars. I find her writing excellent and funny when she's speaking naturally and just utterly turgid when it's the 'academic' style. As though she feels academic writing needs to be complicated to be sufficiently important.
It's a shame she doesn't just keep writing funny columns about how it's all going and why it's still infuriating because I think she'd be good at that

I also enjoyed Annals of the TERF Wars.

JCJ is welcome to disagree with/dislike KJK/whoever & vice versa, & if they/anyone else want to bicker on X…well, that’s pretty much how X is set up to harvest engagement.

Men are not going to become just slightly, just a tiny tiny twidge, more women because a) JCJ gets up people’s noses by being wordy b) Glinner gets pissed c) JKR is politely accustomed to using social lie pronouns when in conversation with a longstanding friend.

The planet goes on being round, men go on being men whatever they wear & whatever cosmetic surgery they have, & JCJ goes on doing her touchy & verbose thing, & good for her.

Personally I think we need all sorts of people with different skillsets to get female only spaces and services properly protected again, so I find the bitching about the "head girls" tedious and counterproductive. And I'm absolutely gobsmacked at some of the rhetoric aimed towards Sex Matters and For Women Scotland in the last few days, because they're focusing on what they think is achievable rather than what some other people want them to focus on.