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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/04/2026 13:26

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:07

You genuinely win the prize for the best post on this thread. I haven't laughed so hard in ages.

  1. I love the idea of being a principal cheerleader. Do I have to buy my own outfit? I mean, I'm 54, I don't usually wear short skirts any more.
  2. I absolutely applaud your brave attempt to link my user name to my attitudes towards rape and/or boundaries. I mean, that's Mr Tickle levels of reaching, right there.

Bravo, sister. Truly bravo.

I see that you still have no answer to my substantiative points about rape and pregnancy.

HazelLemur · 28/04/2026 13:26

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:19

Name calling? Really? I expected better from you somehow.

I'm proud to be a socialist. And I'm not an idiot.

The country is on its knees. Money needs to be found from somewhere. The poor don't have any. The squeezed middle are squeezed to the point of desperation. And yet, we still have billionaires.

Did you know that 50 families in the UK have the same amount of wealth as the bottom 50% of the population?

We need wealth redistribution as a matter of urgency.

You keep saying Polanski won't win the next election. Have another look at the opinion polls. Look at the direction of travel. Add three years.

Not impossible, is it?

Edited

"Not impossible, is it?"

It is to these people, who will cravenly bow before Farage - or any grifter - who happens along and starts singing their tune.

They're the same people who cravenly voted for Brexit, then - when it turned out the grown-ups who told them all along it was an idiot thing to do were proven right - claimed that they didn't get "the Brexit wot we voted for".

This country is on its knees because these people are allowed to vote.

OP posts:
IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:28

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/04/2026 13:26

I see that you still have no answer to my substantiative points about rape and pregnancy.

I'm sorry... did you really expect me to respond telling you why my user name wasn't chosen in order to make a point about rape and pregnancy?

If you made a sensible point, then I apologise, I must have missed it. It's been quite a hectic discussion...

BusyAzureTraybake · 28/04/2026 13:28

@HazelLemur This country is on its knees because these people are allowed to vote.

Blimey, this thread is heading in a nasty direction. Next up: eugenics

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/04/2026 13:29

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:09

And Farage isn't?

100% of politicians are grifters. We get to vote for who we think is the least shitty grifter.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:29

HazelLemur · 28/04/2026 13:26

"Not impossible, is it?"

It is to these people, who will cravenly bow before Farage - or any grifter - who happens along and starts singing their tune.

They're the same people who cravenly voted for Brexit, then - when it turned out the grown-ups who told them all along it was an idiot thing to do were proven right - claimed that they didn't get "the Brexit wot we voted for".

This country is on its knees because these people are allowed to vote.

Yeah, steady on, OP.

Idiots voting for clowns is a big part of why we're in this mess, you're right. But disenfranchisement isn't the answer.

Better politicians have to make better arguments, is all.

Oh, and we need to do something about the right-wing bias in the media.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:30

BusyAzureTraybake · 28/04/2026 13:28

@HazelLemur This country is on its knees because these people are allowed to vote.

Blimey, this thread is heading in a nasty direction. Next up: eugenics

Yeah, I agree with you. Not an argument we should be entertaining.

MrsColinRobinson · 28/04/2026 13:31

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:22

I don't believe he's anti-semitic, because I've heard him talk about it.

I offer the fact that he's the only jewish party leader as further evidence - not the sole evidence - to support that point.

I thought you were sick of this and were flouncing hours ago.

You were asked perfectly politely by many to explain your weird stance on thinking TWAW but not in the places you decide upon. You then angrily refused to engage.

Now you're instrumental in a complete disrail about party politics, much to the delight of OP who's using it as a reason to avoid entering into the debate he started.

You've got a acute case of main character syndrome.

You also seem bewildered when it comes to the Green party fictional promises to nationalise services with no money.

Igmum · 28/04/2026 13:31

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 02:45

OP, I wondered what part of your post was probably one of the most enlightening. Then I realised the part I always came back to was this group of words.

”In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender women”

Not only did you believe this was ‘an essay’, but you also believed this was ‘cutting edge science’ and that both of these statements ‘validated’ male people in their subjective reality where they were any type of woman.

I actually think you nailed it with those words on so many levels!

Have you been applauded elsewhere for your massive insight into the workings of the transgender mind? I surely hope so. I hope you spread this insight far and wide.

Most illuminating, OP.

It’s from Facebook. He’s getting a lorra lorra love there. Suspect he was encouraged by that and assumed once we had read his magnificent arguments we would immediately admit the error of our ways. Guess he’s had to move to Plan B now, haunted by the raucous laughter of many middle aged women.

5128gap · 28/04/2026 13:32

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:19

Name calling? Really? I expected better from you somehow.

I'm proud to be a socialist. And I'm not an idiot.

The country is on its knees. Money needs to be found from somewhere. The poor don't have any. The squeezed middle are squeezed to the point of desperation. And yet, we still have billionaires.

Did you know that 50 families in the UK have the same amount of wealth as the bottom 50% of the population?

We need wealth redistribution as a matter of urgency.

You keep saying Polanski won't win the next election. Have another look at the opinion polls. Look at the direction of travel. Add three years.

Not impossible, is it?

Edited

Socialism is built on the principle of the greatest good to the greatest number. The whole justification for wealth redistribution is that its a bad thing for a minority to be privileged to the disadvantage of the majority.
As a socialist, I can't square these beliefs with the greens insistence that the wishes of a tiny minority subset of the most privileged sex class take precedence over the the rights of the entirety the least privileged sex class.
Which is a great shame because I agree with you there's a lot to like. But I just can't square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in how other socialists do?

BusyAzureTraybake · 28/04/2026 13:32

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:22

I don't believe he's anti-semitic, because I've heard him talk about it.

I offer the fact that he's the only jewish party leader as further evidence - not the sole evidence - to support that point.

I'd be interested in hearing Mothin Ali's pov, but of course the Greens don't ever seem to put him up for interview

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/04/2026 13:32

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:28

I'm sorry... did you really expect me to respond telling you why my user name wasn't chosen in order to make a point about rape and pregnancy?

If you made a sensible point, then I apologise, I must have missed it. It's been quite a hectic discussion...

There's a forum function to see all of a given user's posts. Click the three dots on one of their posts and a menu opens up with a line "see all posts by X".

My first post is the one containing the arguments that no TRA ever bothers to try to refute.

DialSquare · 28/04/2026 13:33

BusyAzureTraybake · 28/04/2026 13:28

@HazelLemur This country is on its knees because these people are allowed to vote.

Blimey, this thread is heading in a nasty direction. Next up: eugenics

Ironically, if we‘d all been born 150 years ago, most of us wouldn’t have been able to vote. But OP would have.

Shedmistress · 28/04/2026 13:34

WateringCans · 28/04/2026 13:10

Genuinely interested in reading this too please. I haven’t rtft, just looked at all op’s posts waiting for the link to the research. Checking the premise of an argument is 101, surely, no point engaging otherwise.

If I remember correctly, they started using this claim that men who say they are women have exactly the same brains as women who do not say they are men, AKA women and the activists immediately started braying, if we can stick with the parlance of the OP, because that would mean scans could prove either way that they were not indeed, of the same brain, and this suggestion started to be shushed by the TRA powers that be.

So I am only assuming that the OP is using an outdated manual.

BackToLurk · 28/04/2026 13:35

BusyAzureTraybake · 28/04/2026 13:32

I'd be interested in hearing Mothin Ali's pov, but of course the Greens don't ever seem to put him up for interview

We know Ali’s view. Raping and murdering civilians is just ‘fighting back’. But that’s ok because he said sowwy and Polanski is Jewish, or something.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:36

MrsColinRobinson · 28/04/2026 13:31

I thought you were sick of this and were flouncing hours ago.

You were asked perfectly politely by many to explain your weird stance on thinking TWAW but not in the places you decide upon. You then angrily refused to engage.

Now you're instrumental in a complete disrail about party politics, much to the delight of OP who's using it as a reason to avoid entering into the debate he started.

You've got a acute case of main character syndrome.

You also seem bewildered when it comes to the Green party fictional promises to nationalise services with no money.

I was/am sick of this. But I'm in a very boring meeting now, so...

I was asked politely by some, less politely by others. I still - respectfully - decline to engage on that subject.

I'm happy to stop talking politics. I didn't intend to derail the thread, though it doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive.

If the OP shared his scientific evidence, we could all discuss that instead? I'd be keen to see it, as would others it seems.

There are ways to nationalise services without it costing a fortune. But I don't want to derail the thread further by going into that.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 13:37

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:12

I don't give a flying fuck what the women on this thread think about my position. I was asked what I believe, and I answered.

I came on this thread to pull up the OP for their - in my opinion - patronising and inflammatory approach. Someone asked for my views on the subject, and I responded.

I didn't come here to start a debate - particularly in a space where I knew I would be outnumbered.

As I've said before - I've had these discussions many, many times. I've spent countless hours - days, even - expressing my views carefully, with rationale, with evidence. All of that.

It has got me precisely nowhere. Which is why I'm not doing it again. Again, it's not that I CAN'T refute your arguments, it's just that I WILL NOT.

This is pointless. The whole thing is pointless. We're not going to settle it here, or in any of the other spaces in which this subject gets debated.

It's not even going to get settled in law. Your side thought they had it won last summer, but look what a pyrrhic victory that turned out to be. Labour are going to continue to fudge and obfuscate on this until the next election, at which point either Reform will try and sway it one way, or the Greens will try and sway it the other.

I fully expect us to be debating/arguing about this until the eventual heat death of the universe. Which is not a cheery thought at all, but hey ho.

And yet, people with female bodies continue to exist amd continue to suffer the physical and social consequences of this regardless of whether it's "settled" or not.

So all that is really being argued about is whether it's reasonable to recognise and support these people or not. The reality doesn't go away either way.

BackToLurk · 28/04/2026 13:38

HazelLemur · 28/04/2026 13:26

"Not impossible, is it?"

It is to these people, who will cravenly bow before Farage - or any grifter - who happens along and starts singing their tune.

They're the same people who cravenly voted for Brexit, then - when it turned out the grown-ups who told them all along it was an idiot thing to do were proven right - claimed that they didn't get "the Brexit wot we voted for".

This country is on its knees because these people are allowed to vote.

But you’re in New York aren’t you? What do you mean by ‘this country’ ?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/04/2026 13:38

Shedmistress · 28/04/2026 13:34

If I remember correctly, they started using this claim that men who say they are women have exactly the same brains as women who do not say they are men, AKA women and the activists immediately started braying, if we can stick with the parlance of the OP, because that would mean scans could prove either way that they were not indeed, of the same brain, and this suggestion started to be shushed by the TRA powers that be.

So I am only assuming that the OP is using an outdated manual.

Edited

It doesn't matter whether TW brains are like women's brains or not. You don't carry a baby in your brain, nor do you rape someone and make them pregnant with your brain.

Facilities are separated by reproductive capacity to give women respite from the otherwise-constant risk of forced pregnancy. The end.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:39

5128gap · 28/04/2026 13:32

Socialism is built on the principle of the greatest good to the greatest number. The whole justification for wealth redistribution is that its a bad thing for a minority to be privileged to the disadvantage of the majority.
As a socialist, I can't square these beliefs with the greens insistence that the wishes of a tiny minority subset of the most privileged sex class take precedence over the the rights of the entirety the least privileged sex class.
Which is a great shame because I agree with you there's a lot to like. But I just can't square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in how other socialists do?

I can - and do - square that circle, by sticking to the principle that the best outcome is the one that creates the least harm to the most amount of people.

Taking money from billionaires and using it to fund social services is a great example of that.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

Refusing to allow trans women to enter female elite sports to win prizes set aside for women athletes, would be a third example.

rocer · 28/04/2026 13:39

Perhaps a tad late to this thread: but I notice the OP relies heavily on the notion of gender identity. And, well, there really is no such thing.

This was pointed out persuasively back in 2019 by the philosopher Alex Byrne. [See, for instance, medium.com/arc-digital/what-is-gender-identity-10ce0da71999.] His partial conclusion, "If there is some kind of “gender identity” that is universal in humans, and which causes dysphoria when mismatched with sex, it remains elusive. No one has yet found a way of detecting its presence, and verifying that it is causally responsible for dysphoria."

I wonder: has anyone answered the implied challenge here and found a way of detecting its presence and so on? I suspect that not.

In fact, it seems the concept 'gender identity' suffers all the difficulties Gilbert Ryle pointed out in 1949 appertaining to a particular concept of 'mind', category error and all the rest. This is a somewhat stronger challenge than Byrne's; it certainly needs addressing if we are to be at all serious in our assessment.

I'm sure you'll agree, OP. You must have considered this, as a serious person involved so heavily in the debate. So: how do you respond to Rylean-type critiques of the notion of gender identity, and how, once this is done, do you suggest we go about detecting its presence (in yourself, not least, but of course also importantly in the rest of humanity)?

Awaiting a response, I'll finish how I started.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GENDER IDENTITY.

MrsColinRobinson · 28/04/2026 13:40

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:36

I was/am sick of this. But I'm in a very boring meeting now, so...

I was asked politely by some, less politely by others. I still - respectfully - decline to engage on that subject.

I'm happy to stop talking politics. I didn't intend to derail the thread, though it doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive.

If the OP shared his scientific evidence, we could all discuss that instead? I'd be keen to see it, as would others it seems.

There are ways to nationalise services without it costing a fortune. But I don't want to derail the thread further by going into that.

If you agree with the vast majority posting to press for this evidence why aren't you pushing for that?

Honestly, you're coming across as just as disingenuous as OP right now.

And coming on a thread like this to express an opinion whilst refusing to explain is ridiculous. You don't have to post at all if it's so tiresome for you.

TheWickerFan · 28/04/2026 13:41

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:39

I can - and do - square that circle, by sticking to the principle that the best outcome is the one that creates the least harm to the most amount of people.

Taking money from billionaires and using it to fund social services is a great example of that.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

Refusing to allow trans women to enter female elite sports to win prizes set aside for women athletes, would be a third example.

But if you allow transwomen into female toilets, you increase the risk for every other woman who uses them. We have no evidence at all transwomen are less safe in male facilities. So what are you basing that on?

BusyAzureTraybake · 28/04/2026 13:43

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:39

I can - and do - square that circle, by sticking to the principle that the best outcome is the one that creates the least harm to the most amount of people.

Taking money from billionaires and using it to fund social services is a great example of that.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

Refusing to allow trans women to enter female elite sports to win prizes set aside for women athletes, would be a third example.

So you don't believe that 'transwomen' are women, presumably?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/04/2026 13:43

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 13:39

I can - and do - square that circle, by sticking to the principle that the best outcome is the one that creates the least harm to the most amount of people.

Taking money from billionaires and using it to fund social services is a great example of that.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

Refusing to allow trans women to enter female elite sports to win prizes set aside for women athletes, would be a third example.

Allowing trans women to use female bathrooms in order to avoid the danger of going into male facilities would seem to me to be another.

No it isn't. You've let someone with a dick and balls into where the people who can get pregnant are, putting all the potentially-pregnant people at real or perceived risk of forced pregnancy. You've done harm to many many people for the sake of one.

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