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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
Abouttoblow · 28/04/2026 11:52

HazelLemur · 28/04/2026 08:59

Delightful of you to post, Ms Bechdel, but there are no men here I'm aware of.

Why did you lie about being a transwoman? What was the purpose of that?
Why would you pretend to be a transwoman speaking on behalf of yourself rather than just say you're a woman who wants to prioritise the demands of men?

ITMA2000 · 28/04/2026 11:52

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 27/04/2026 17:50

Only a man would have to type out such a long essay about why he's really a "woman".
🙄

Fuck all the way off.

Not all men are women.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 11:53

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 10:00

Of course I've considered the well-being of women and girls. Would have been a bit one-sided if I hadn't.

I think the risk is lower. Principally because I believe the vast majority of transwomen just want to pee, wash their hands and leave. I don't agree with the idea that they're all predatory.

Depends how you define predatory doesn't it?

All sexual predators? Absolutely not.

All happy to appropriate womanhood and override women's interests if they conflict with what the TW wants? Absolutely yes, by definition of believing themselves entitled to appropriate women's spaces, resources and legal and social identity in the first place.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 11:53

MarieDeGournay · 28/04/2026 11:49

Ahhh, so you are that person. Suspected as much.

I'm not sure how 'suspicion' comes into it, and it doesn't make you Sherlock Holmes, it implies that you haven't a very good awareness of other discussions on this board if it took you this long to associate SingleSexSpacesInSchools with the regular poster SingleSexSpacesInSchools, who posts about single sex spaces in schools, under the username SingleSexSpacesInSchools.

sherlock holmes GIF

I am a man of mystery

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 11:54

ITMA2000 · 28/04/2026 11:52

Not all men are women.

No men are women. Is that what you meant?

EdithStourton · 28/04/2026 11:56

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 10:08

I'm not responding to these questions. I've done it before - in detail - and it never makes any difference.

If I thought this was a genuine discussion, then I'd engage. But it isn't, and never is.

I came onto this thread because I thought the OP was being confrontational and patronising. And I told them so.

I remain convinced that there is a way through this debate that is rooted in kindness, compassion and compromise. But only if people are interested in finding one.

Translation:
'I can't refute those points so I'm sodding off.'
Great rhetorical device, that. Completely guaranteed to swing your audience behind you.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 11:59

EdithStourton · 28/04/2026 11:56

Translation:
'I can't refute those points so I'm sodding off.'
Great rhetorical device, that. Completely guaranteed to swing your audience behind you.

I've responded many times before. In detail. It got me nowhere.

It's not that I can't refute the points I made ( most of which related to my beliefs, and why I held them, rather than, say, the scientific claims which the OP made ) it's genuinely that I don't see the point.

I didn't start this thread, the OP did. I'm not particularly inclined to become the next target on it.

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 12:00

When people advocate kindness and compassion as a way forward on this topic - they only ever mean kindness and compassion for men, don't they?

Never a single thought for women required to give up their rights and budge up for men.

Where's the kindness and compassion for them?

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 28/04/2026 12:02

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 09:37

If the Left wanted to defuse this all they need to do is allow female people to continue to have a social and legal existence without having to include male people who have a certain state of mind. That's literally all. They are standing on their own hands then complaining that others' hands are free.

There is no middle ground here because women are either the sex class only, or they are a state of mind. As soon as you legitimately accept even one man as "a woman" because of how he thinks, you have just imposed on every single woman an assumption of mental womanhood which is belittling, degrading and false.

Edited

Wow, this is so blindingly obvious now you’ve said it! All the far right nonsense punctured in one go, if the left would just recognise women exist as a sex class that does not include any men. Just like that. All those far right loons who happen to agree that there are just two sexes deflated- pooouff.

So I can feel righteously angry that feckin labour have painted me out of my usual party. Buggers!

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:02

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 12:00

When people advocate kindness and compassion as a way forward on this topic - they only ever mean kindness and compassion for men, don't they?

Never a single thought for women required to give up their rights and budge up for men.

Where's the kindness and compassion for them?

I mean compassion and kindness in both directions. I thought the OP was lacking in it, and I pulled them up on it also.

FormerCautiousLurker · 28/04/2026 12:03

borntobequiet · 28/04/2026 11:38

Not a difficult deduction seeing as SSSIS has posted extensively about this on here.

Methinks some especially faux disingenuousness being displayed here.

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 12:03

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 11:59

I've responded many times before. In detail. It got me nowhere.

It's not that I can't refute the points I made ( most of which related to my beliefs, and why I held them, rather than, say, the scientific claims which the OP made ) it's genuinely that I don't see the point.

I didn't start this thread, the OP did. I'm not particularly inclined to become the next target on it.

You are advocating women give up their rights to single sex space, though they don't consent to that.

You won't give a justification for that, other than you think they should.

Can you see why the womem on this thread might have an issue with that stance?

PurplishGemstones · 28/04/2026 12:04

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women

I work in a charity shop and over the past 3 or so years have sold blouses to hundreds of women. Also have sold blouses to 4 transwomen. You can tell you know.

The interesting thing is that only a handful of women out of hundreds, certainly over a thousand bothered trying on the blouses, whilst every single one of the four transwomen made a big show of 'having to try it on'. This isn't comment on using the changing room because we only have one cubicle right in the middle of the shop with a flimsy curtain and it's truly crap.

It's just something that really stands out to me and colleagues. I wonder what the explanation could be.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 12:05

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 10:08

I'm not responding to these questions. I've done it before - in detail - and it never makes any difference.

If I thought this was a genuine discussion, then I'd engage. But it isn't, and never is.

I came onto this thread because I thought the OP was being confrontational and patronising. And I told them so.

I remain convinced that there is a way through this debate that is rooted in kindness, compassion and compromise. But only if people are interested in finding one.

Look, you have to understand that any compromise between "women exist as a sex class not just as a sexist chariacture" and "some men are pretty much women because of how they feel" still means women as a sex class no longer exists. So it's not a compromise at all.

Compromise is when the family only has one car so they agree to share it.

This is more like having a different family take your car, and when you object being told you have a point but they really need it so stop being so unreasonable and extreme about who owns the car, meet them half way and share the car. (But you somehow still end doing the servicing...)

FancyBiscuit · 28/04/2026 12:06

I agree with you OP, I'm so sorry you're getting so much hate. Sending love

TheWickerFan · 28/04/2026 12:06

FancyBiscuit · 28/04/2026 12:06

I agree with you OP, I'm so sorry you're getting so much hate. Sending love

What do you agree with exactly? Because you know there is absolutely no evidence for most of the stuff in the OP, right?

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 12:08

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:02

I mean compassion and kindness in both directions. I thought the OP was lacking in it, and I pulled them up on it also.

But you haven't show an iota of kindness or compassion to women.

You're asking them to give up their single sex spaces. You don't say why, on what grounds, just that that you think they should.

This is to women who have been raped, women who have been abused, women who are orthodox religious and need spaces away from men, women women who are menstruating and dealing with that, women who haven't given their consent for men in their spaces.

Genuinely, seriously, what kindness or compassion do you think you are showing to women here?

Wearenotborg · 28/04/2026 12:08

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/04/2026 07:27

I dunno hazels style seems very familiar! I wonder if they used to be a butterfly or posses a rolling pin

I was just thinking that!!!

5128gap · 28/04/2026 12:10

RoyalCorgi · 28/04/2026 11:43

Isn't the OP just Christinapple under another name? There have been several TRA posters who use a similar naming convention, ie a female name followed by an object (apple, lemur, and I've forgotten the rest). They are all, surely, the same person.

I can't see a veteran like Chris giving us transwoman without the space, or the weird hyphenated version. Chris is also keener to explain and much more skilled with words than the OP. I get the impression Chris is older, and this OP writes very young.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 28/04/2026 12:10

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 11:59

I've responded many times before. In detail. It got me nowhere.

It's not that I can't refute the points I made ( most of which related to my beliefs, and why I held them, rather than, say, the scientific claims which the OP made ) it's genuinely that I don't see the point.

I didn't start this thread, the OP did. I'm not particularly inclined to become the next target on it.

You keep saying you have answered “many times before”, but you have not answered here.

And this is not an abstract belief with no consequences. You are arguing that female spaces should include some males.

That directly affects women and girls.

So the question remains very simple:

If single-sex spaces exist for female privacy, dignity and safety, on what grounds should male people who identify as trans be admitted?

“I don’t see the point” is not an answer.

It is just a refusal to defend a position that asks women to give up their boundaries.

GenderlessVoid · 28/04/2026 12:11

FancyBiscuit · 28/04/2026 12:06

I agree with you OP, I'm so sorry you're getting so much hate. Sending love

Which points do you agree with? Do you have any evidence for those of us who are interested?

What hate? Please be specific about which posts and what is hateful about them.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:12

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 12:03

You are advocating women give up their rights to single sex space, though they don't consent to that.

You won't give a justification for that, other than you think they should.

Can you see why the womem on this thread might have an issue with that stance?

I don't give a flying fuck what the women on this thread think about my position. I was asked what I believe, and I answered.

I came on this thread to pull up the OP for their - in my opinion - patronising and inflammatory approach. Someone asked for my views on the subject, and I responded.

I didn't come here to start a debate - particularly in a space where I knew I would be outnumbered.

As I've said before - I've had these discussions many, many times. I've spent countless hours - days, even - expressing my views carefully, with rationale, with evidence. All of that.

It has got me precisely nowhere. Which is why I'm not doing it again. Again, it's not that I CAN'T refute your arguments, it's just that I WILL NOT.

This is pointless. The whole thing is pointless. We're not going to settle it here, or in any of the other spaces in which this subject gets debated.

It's not even going to get settled in law. Your side thought they had it won last summer, but look what a pyrrhic victory that turned out to be. Labour are going to continue to fudge and obfuscate on this until the next election, at which point either Reform will try and sway it one way, or the Greens will try and sway it the other.

I fully expect us to be debating/arguing about this until the eventual heat death of the universe. Which is not a cheery thought at all, but hey ho.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:13

TheKeatingFive · 28/04/2026 12:08

But you haven't show an iota of kindness or compassion to women.

You're asking them to give up their single sex spaces. You don't say why, on what grounds, just that that you think they should.

This is to women who have been raped, women who have been abused, women who are orthodox religious and need spaces away from men, women women who are menstruating and dealing with that, women who haven't given their consent for men in their spaces.

Genuinely, seriously, what kindness or compassion do you think you are showing to women here?

" But you haven't show an iota of kindness or compassion to women. "

That's bullshit. I haven't insulted anyone. Don't confuse my approach with that of the OP.

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:13

GenderlessVoid · 28/04/2026 12:11

Which points do you agree with? Do you have any evidence for those of us who are interested?

What hate? Please be specific about which posts and what is hateful about them.

@FancyBiscuit run, it's a trap! :-)

TheWickerFan · 28/04/2026 12:13

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 28/04/2026 12:13

" But you haven't show an iota of kindness or compassion to women. "

That's bullshit. I haven't insulted anyone. Don't confuse my approach with that of the OP.

No, but you think it's fine to give away their rights to some men, which is kind of worse than insulting someone on the internet, no?

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