Disappointed that Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie is promoting her use of surrogacy as compatible with feminism

[Carla786]

I loved Purple Hibiscus and recently got through the rest of her books from my library. I really like her novels and especially her GC stance, but I was discussing her on a feminist subreddit recently and her use of surrogacy came up. It's disappointing she promotes it here as compatible with feminism,

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/entertainment/naija-fashion/791804-ive-no-regrets-welcoming-my-twins-through-surrogacy-chimamanda-adichie.html

Infertility is of course extremely painful, but I don't think that justifies using another woman's womb.

Id already be attached to the baby. It would be my niece or nephew. It would be better for the baby to do a slower transition with two overlapping caregivers. Even if it was harder for me.

No it just seems like you think grooming is relevant where a woman has made a decision that you would not. That is becauae you do nit respect women as autonomous, intelligent creatures. That's quite typical of the misogynistic society we live in to see women as weak and fickle.

Weirdly yes, I’m not the biggest fan of anyone who never prioritises women and their rights.

If you see me repeating your own words - that anyone can find with AS - as badmouthing you, then you need to take a long look in the mirror. Maybe “be better than that”.

I’m not derailing this thread by arguing with you any more.

In my exploration, it varied. Some surrogate have the baby for a couple of days or more for colostrum and other logistics. Some like we would have choose to co-care for the baby for some time.

I repeat: It's not possible to craft laws that protect the surrogate mother from that outcome [of the commissioners refusing to adopt] without those same laws being used to force her to relinquish the child if she changes her mind. Such laws would also put the surrogate mother at risk of being coerced into prenatal tests, abortion, and having her medical decisions overridden by the commissioners. Either the child is legally the surrogate mother's or legally the commissioners', you cannot have it both ways.

Surrogacy disputes aren't something that can be sorted by a chat over a cup of tea, nor can they be sorted by contract law.

Good because your points are illogical and motivated by your poor attitude towards women and their ability to make informed choices. Its archaic and frankly embarrassing that you see yourself that way

Grooming to "be kind" is relevant whenever a woman makes a decision that benefits someone else at her expense.

Nope.

And we know a lot about that. When you listen to adults who were taken as babies from their young mothers, in the Mother and Baby homes, they talk about an underlying malaise throughout their adult lives.

They all have ching ching moments when they find out their origin story. Things then start to fit, and they feel more of a sense of place in the world. Largely due to the recognition that they are not of the family they always felt slightly disconnected from. Loved, but disconnected.

What outcome? Why do you always imagine a war? Some of us want our babies. Seems like you know a lot of women who would do everything to have a baby, and then walk away if isnt perfect. Thats far more prevalent in some cultures than others.

How would this impact existing children in these families?

Pretty destabilising and confusing I would think.

Regardless, relating all your arguments about the broader topic of surrogacy to your one very specific (and entirely exceptional ime) situation is not helpful.

Putting your proposed dynamics to one side - how do you feel about surrogacy of the much more common kind?

Yep you see yourself as so groomed that you cannot provide informed consent due to you being a woman. You said earlier. Youre too busy trying to be kind to advocate for yourself.

Still nope.

What existing children? Are you saying that me spending time with my infant niece or nephew that I birthed for their parents would be destabilising for children? Research shows that existing children of the surrogate cope fine.

Stop the speculation, hopes and guesses, and refer to actual research.

You said it earlier. Poor woman. You should have a social worker.

Nope.

You can argue all you want but we can all see your post on the other page. I can also see the reactions to my post questioning your perspective. Maybe some people here would like to admit that they have reacted to it positively because they too strongly disagree with your views on women. If they are not cowardly that is.

Groomed from birth by your own admission so now none of us can trust your yes ever means yes. You might just be fawning.

I refer to my previous comment.

Nope.

No matter how many times you quote and tag me, I’m not getting drawn into your nonsense.

If a child is being taken for adoption, the trauma usually (not always) has started well before that process started.

The caregivers being the root of the problem seems like a poor understanding of what brings on adoption in the first place.

The laws governing any practice have to consider and mitigate the worst possible outcomes for everyone involved. For example, I have to be insured to drive my car because the worst possible outcome is that I make a mistake and cause someone a life-long disability.

In the case of surrogacy, the worst possible outcomes include, without being limited to:

• Disability of the surrogate mother from pregnancy complications.
• Refusal of the commissioners to adopt the child.
• The surrogate mother needing an abortion or early delivery to protect her life or health.
• The child being born disabled and the commissioners blaming the surrogate mother.
• Pregnancy loss that the commissioners blame the surrogate mother for.

The law has to consider and mitigate the following possibilities solely because there are commissioners involved:

1. The commissioners attempting legal action against the surrogate mother for perceived negligence during the pregnancy leading to miscarriage or the child being disabled.
2. The commissioners refusing to adopt, leaving the surrogate mother holding a baby she didn't expect to be raising.
3. The surrogate mother bonding with the child and refusing to permit the adoption.
4. The commissioners attempting legal action against the surrogate mother because she had an abortion.
5. The surrogate mother attempting legal action against the commissioners for a disability incurred from the pregnancy.

It's not possible to craft a law that prevents all of these adverse outcomes, other than one that says "surrogacy is outlawed". If you allow surrogacy but prohibit contracts between the commissioners and the surrogate mother, you prevent 1, 4, and 5 at the cost of permitting 2 and 3. If you legalise contracts to prevent 2 and 3, you open the door to 1, 4, and 5. Legalising contracts is deeply problematic for a second reason: it would create a situation in which babies are de facto transferrable property, which is at odds with their basic human rights.

You might trust your in-laws to do the right thing but other people with different moral values exist and there are already documented instances of commissioners rejecting babies. The law is there to protect us all from the immoral people, not the moral ones.

You are deliberately twisting what that poster said. You are being dishonest.

Back to the topic at hand as it seems to have been derailed. What an awful woman. Buying a baby is never ok. Utterly grim. She should be ashamed of herself.

I was just thinking that I’d never seen AidaP and GHC on the same thread but their style is very similar

I have skipped over 8 pages of arguing, but yes it is disappointing. I can't see how support g surrogacy in any way compatible with being a feminist.

But we don't make choices in a vacuum - it's not feminist to dress for the male gaze yet I know my life is easier if I wear makeup and 'look pretty'. She obviously convinced herself surrogacy was okay because she was in pain or whatever.
I get it's nowhere near an equal analogy but sometimes we are humans before we are feminists.

Anyway, my feeling is every 'altruistic' surrogacy gives credibility to and paves the way for to commercial surrogacy. Humans aren't gifts to be given away, or items to be sold to those who can afford one. I find commercial surrogacy particularly grotesque.