Disappointed that Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie is promoting her use of surrogacy as compatible with feminism

[Carla786]

I loved Purple Hibiscus and recently got through the rest of her books from my library. I really like her novels and especially her GC stance, but I was discussing her on a feminist subreddit recently and her use of surrogacy came up. It's disappointing she promotes it here as compatible with feminism,

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/entertainment/naija-fashion/791804-ive-no-regrets-welcoming-my-twins-through-surrogacy-chimamanda-adichie.html

Infertility is of course extremely painful, but I don't think that justifies using another woman's womb.

I was going to be a surrogate for my SIL. The had fertility treatment and it didn't work. We looked into it and she paused her treatment, we decided to go forwards. She conceived naturally! She's got 2 now. 2nd She had a bit of help but not IVF.

I'm glad she was able to have children. I do think surrogacy for family or friends is different to paid surrogacy but still feel uneasy.
Your situation sounds fine, but what about if someone sibling etc pressures them?

I don't know... I suppose I mainly think paid surrogacy shouldn't be legal.

That is... disappointing.

I'm not aware of her work, but agree that surrogacy is in no way compatible with feminism.

I'm actually pretty hard-line about gamete donation when it comes to feminism, never mind surrogacy.

I think there's a hard conversation to be had about reproductive rights.

As soon as something is commodified, it becomes part of a wider conversation, and of course it's only ever certain women who really get to make the 'choices' around reproduction in this way.

I am really hard-line when it comes to reproductive choices, in that, only the woman that owns that body gets to choose. I believe in abortion to the point of birth, not because I want to 'kill babies' but because every other option supposes that the woman is less important than the feotus and so few women actually would take that option (and only then for extreme reasons), that we shouldn't even have the conversation, the conversation feels regressive.

That sounds 'lovely' but I honestly can't understand why your SIL would have asked this, what if you had a traumatic birth injury as a result of your altruism?

Did they ask you to do that?

Or did you offer?

I think it would be difficult to get through the red tape in this country if you were being pressured in some way from what I saw of that system. What I did see that gave red flags were more from the women who want to do it for seemingly anyone and over and over again. Money did not seem to be an incentive.

I suppose part of my reaction is due to the fact we , reasonably, don't know the circumstances. Adichie comes from a pretty fortunate background and one would hope she didn't take advantage of a less fortunate woman. Certainly that would seem to contrary to the ideas professed in her novels & feminist writings.

Yes. Taking advantage of poor women is one factor. Another is, as you say, someone maybe getting almost addicted to being pregnant (which can give a massive high, after all- my mother was crazy to get pregnant again as soon ad I saw born. A few weeks later, she was glad she didn't

Well you know when a woman has fertility issues that there are few ways she can become (bio) parents. Surrogacy is one of those ways. That had been openly discussed.

So, after a few rounds of IVF didnt work, I was in a place where I was happy to do it. I offered once I knew they were moving on from trying themselves.

It wouldn't have been my first baby and probably not my last if things went well and I had no reason to feel that they would not. That "not my first and not my last" was important to me.

It wasn't one conversation.

The poster I spoke to said Adichie had twins via the sirrogate, I've not checked that though.

I suppose I also feel saddened as she already had a girl back in 2016 (surrogate twins were 2020s I think). If she'd been able to have none, I could understand a but more...though no excuse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8rrk5ngngo

"I am really hard-line when it comes to reproductive choices, in that, only the woman that owns that body gets to choose. I believe in abortion to the point of birth, not because I want to 'kill babies' but because every other option supposes that the woman is less important than the feotus and so few women actually would take that option (and only then for extreme reasons), that we shouldn't even have the conversation, the conversation feels regressive."

This is interesting because one of the points she makes is that people who are pro-choice can be hypocritical on this matter. They say a woman gets to choose, but doesnt get to choose to have a baby for someone else.

Of course that assumes the woman is making a fully informed choice. I was. I'm aware that not all women around the world would be. But I fail to see if yiu have established informed consent, like my SIL did with me, how me deciding to carry her baby would not be me choosing to use my own fertility as I see fit.

Hmm, I'm very dubious about altruistic family donations, it's a very deep philosophical subject, the idea around altruism. I'm not sure it exists.

You have children, how would that work if you died carrying a child for you SiL, it's not a choice without extreme possible repercussions.

How does your children's 'right' to a mother stack up against your sister in Law's 'right' to a child.

And how did that conversation go in your head?

Does that matter much? Surely what matters is that the surrogate understands the risks they are taking. How much does their motivation matter?

Yeah I was prepared to take that risk. I had one low risk pregnancy and birth. No reason to think I wouldn't have others.

The same way it goes when I do anything that could potentially end in my death but most likely will not.

Nice argument if it makes it ok to use another woman's womb to your benefit.

As I said, I'm hard line, as far as I'm concerned this shouldn't even be a conversation.

I see no hypocrisy in my stance.

It's a hard no. Not even worth discussion unless you see others as body parts to be used to your benefit.

And before you ask, I'm as philosophically hard-line regarding organ donation. Death or infertility aren't the worse things that can happen to a person, they're very individual and one is universal. The idea of living in a society where we're just a tool-box of organs for others is worse.

The idea that we're just bits dehumanises us all.

Nice argument if it makes it ok to use another woman's womb to your benefit.

As I said, I'm hard line, as far as I'm concerned this shouldn't even be a conversation.

I see no hypocrisy in my stance.

It's a hard no. Not even worth discussion unless you see others as body parts to be used to your benefit.

And before you ask, I'm as philosophically hard-line regarding organ donation. Death or infertility aren't the worse things that can happen to a person, they're very individual and one is universal. The idea of living in a society where we're just a tool-box of organs for others is worse.

The idea that we're just bits dehumanises us all.

Not sure why that posted twice, apologies.

I find your stance very interesting @GlovedhandsCecilia, what motivated you to even consider it?

So how does that reconcile with your beliefs about abortion? Is it purely that the fetus has not been born so lacks an element of humanity that we have as "born people"?

It's a very easy stance, only people that exist, actually exist, an in utero person is just an extension of the mother up until the point of birth.

I don't see any logical fallacies there.

I am close to my SIL and her husband. I thought they'd make great parents. I wanted to be parents alongside them.

I didnt see it as giving them my baby. The baby would be genetically theirs. That made it doable.

I wanted to see my husband be an Uncle to this sister's children specifically. I know he sees some of his relationship with them as paying her back for her care of him over years.

And I could. I had no big reason to think this would negatively affect my fertility or kill me. I had reason to believe I would be ok but perhaps needs caesreans in the future. That was the biggest risk and I was okay with that.