To what extent are we allowed to discuss parallels between cults and gender ideology?

[WitchyWitcherson]

Although harrowing and upsetting, I find cult documentaries fascinating. There are a couple that stand out to me as having really strong parallels to gender ideological beliefs.

Notably (on Netflix if anyone else wants to watch them!):

• Docs on Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) such as Keep Sweet. The phrase and purpose of "Keep Sweet" as used by the Jeffs patriarchs has a lot of similarities with the "Be Kind" narrative that has been peddled to keep people from questioning things.
• The Programme: Cons, Cults and Kidnappings - Episode 2 in particular on vulnerability of desperate parents to looking for easy solutions, then subsequent denial/minimisation of the damages done to their children.
• Twin Flames: They coerce people into medical transition because of a belief in a male or female spirit.

Anyway, these parallels to me are stark, but over the years I've noticed post deletions where people describe gender ideology as cult-like (incidentally in the "The Programme" doc, there was an online forum for parents with kids in the 'school' that deleted all posts criticising the programme...! Talk about more parallels...). So I ask... to what extent are we allowed to discuss these parallels without posts being deleted?

To caveat: I understand not all trans-identified people have homogenous beliefs on sex and gender, and I'm not saying all trans-identified people are part of some cult conspiracy, just that there are aspects to gender ideology and some of the people who are proponents of said ideology adhering to similar behaviours to people who are within cults (shutting down discussion, holding onto beliefs in the face of clear facts and harms, claiming special/"other" status, offering a solution to people's suffering etc. etc.).

One of my posts was deleted for summarising what two posters had said and commenting that they were "sickeningly self absorbed".
This was because their contributions on whether there should be concern for young people harmed by gender affirming care were centered on themselves (one's access to medication/how the other was accepted as a woman).

CRT is part of the postmodern hydra, it's all a counterfactual narrative that seeks to undermine and destroy the modern world (postmodern) so as to bring about a pie-in-the-sky Utopian world.

It's all as bogus as a human being changing their sex.

Well, yeah. Shows how far back the hatred of actual women by men pretending to be women goes. We see it still today where women are told that men pretending to be women are better at womaning than them. It's the patriarchy at it's most bat shit. Men are best at everything, don't you know?

I can't remember if the term is gennies or jennies or similar but it's a disparaging term for actual women and IIRC, the article talks about how actual women will eventually become obsolete (apart from breeding purposes of course).

Do you not perceive that transwomen's needs (i.e. men's) are privileged and considered much more than transmen's (i.e. women's)? They are practically absent from most of the debates (apart from when SexMatters brings up to the SC about their rights when pregnant!).

I can remember reading a piece by a woman who identified as a transman (I can't remember if she detransitioned or not) who discussed the dynamics in their local trans group and how the men who identified as transwomen were controlling of the (often much younger) female members.

The men who identified as transwomen were 'oppressed' and the women who identified as transman were 'oppressors'. Therefore, the females always had to give way to the males. The males' behaviour was described as very predatory, and there was sexual abuse by these older males of the younger females.

I have a feeling that this was all after the cotton ceiling debacle, and that the bloke who wrote about the cotton ceiling was one of the males that the author had known. Morgan something, maybe?

Yes. It's one of the reasons that it is so frustrating trying to 'debate' with TRAs, because their language lacks clarity and their premiss lacks logic. It's like trying to talk sensibly and rationally with an overstimulated teen (or toddler). Except that with the latter, sleep or food or listening to loud music for a while has a good chance of bringing them back to rationality.
I don't know what can be done about this realistically though, in a society dominated by a social-media-led emotional disregulation.

I think Critical Race Theory is one of the three American campus originated theories which under-pin the american 'progressive' vision of society. All three have become blunt instruments that presuppose victimhood and oppression as the main articles of faith...with every societal grouping being perceived to be in a fixed and systemic hierarchy of 'oppressor' and 'oppressed'.

i think it has become a form of ideological group think and does not permit alternative perspectives. Alternative perspectives tend to be themselves positioned with the framework of oppressive constructs that are supposedly meant to disguise the true nature of oppression and exploitation. So, even mathmatics, for example, can become a form of 'white supremacy'. And 'people of colour' who may disagree with any of the edicts are 'coconuts' suffering from false consciousness.

I think certain brands of feminism fall into this group think tendency too....... in which everything comes down to oppression and 'the patriarchy'.

So not a cult...

(1) Kara Dansky on X: "The absolute state of this! #NYC #CultofTrans https://t.co/fHrzij9hUw" / X

Oh, I think I remember that one. Was it one of those youth groups with a worryingly large age range, possibly in Scotland?

Gennies as in 'genuine women'.

Thanks for the explanation. I was trying to search through the possible explanations and failing. AI had nothing to say about it. Interesting.

No tbh. I think they demand equal acknowledgement of their chosen gender identity etc. I dont see TM saying that they don't mind if you think they are women for example.

I know they had a massive go at some of the Lomdon gay clubs who wouldn't let them in. I think TM just annoy some people less but IMO, they are as vocal as TW.

Ok.

I think its the same with extremists of any kind. One of the things that make them extremists is that behaviour. The inability to accept new information or even process information objectively.

This is probably a good point to drop in the Zizians.
Aggregation of reports on the violent Zizian cult

The trans aspect was downplayed quite a bit by some media outlets at the time, but it was obviously integral.

I think the one I read was American, but it would not surprise me if that dynamic was within these groups across the world.

Maybe 'genetic'?

Found it!

And yes, you are correct

It's funny you mention this because I've been reading The Transsexual Empire by the radical feminist professor Janice Raymond, and she featured that letter in one of the chapters:

Dear Sister,
In regards to the Sandy Stone controversy: genetic women- Gennys-have never had to suffer the discrimination, self-hatred or fear that a transsexual must endure and survive in their lives. Genetic women are not ridiculed as severely, killed, tortured and arrested simply because they are
transsexual, as are transsexuals. Genetic women have many rights, in comparison to transsexuals, who have
none.

Genetic women cannot possess the very special courage, brilliance, sensitivity and compassion-and overview-that derives from the transsexual experience. Free from the chains of menstruation and child- bearing. transsexual women are obviously far superior to Gennys in many ways.

As some of you have discovered. because of the severity of the genocidal attitudes we must deal with all of our lives, many transsexuals have learned how to fight without giving any quarter or showing any mercy.

Genetic women are becoming quite obsolete, which is obvious, and the
future belongs to transsexual women. We know this, and perhaps some of you suspect it. All you have left is your “ability" to bear children, and in a world which will groan to feed 6 billion by the year 2000, that's a negative asset.

Transsexual and very proud,
Angela Douglas
Berkeley
Reprinted from Sister August-September, 1977

I see they were claiming a genocide back in 1977 as well.

Oops, I crossposted with you @Waitwhat23, I didn't know you posted when I was writing my comment.🤗

Has to be the slowest moving, non-existent "genocide" of all time🤔

It's always good to get corroboration of a source so thank you.

I think that corporates were the ones completely in thrall to trans activists.

When Science companies- especially pharma companies pretend to not know the difference between male and female they can all get in the bin.