To what extent are we allowed to discuss parallels between cults and gender ideology?

[WitchyWitcherson]

Although harrowing and upsetting, I find cult documentaries fascinating. There are a couple that stand out to me as having really strong parallels to gender ideological beliefs.

Notably (on Netflix if anyone else wants to watch them!):

• Docs on Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) such as Keep Sweet. The phrase and purpose of "Keep Sweet" as used by the Jeffs patriarchs has a lot of similarities with the "Be Kind" narrative that has been peddled to keep people from questioning things.
• The Programme: Cons, Cults and Kidnappings - Episode 2 in particular on vulnerability of desperate parents to looking for easy solutions, then subsequent denial/minimisation of the damages done to their children.
• Twin Flames: They coerce people into medical transition because of a belief in a male or female spirit.

Anyway, these parallels to me are stark, but over the years I've noticed post deletions where people describe gender ideology as cult-like (incidentally in the "The Programme" doc, there was an online forum for parents with kids in the 'school' that deleted all posts criticising the programme...! Talk about more parallels...). So I ask... to what extent are we allowed to discuss these parallels without posts being deleted?

To caveat: I understand not all trans-identified people have homogenous beliefs on sex and gender, and I'm not saying all trans-identified people are part of some cult conspiracy, just that there are aspects to gender ideology and some of the people who are proponents of said ideology adhering to similar behaviours to people who are within cults (shutting down discussion, holding onto beliefs in the face of clear facts and harms, claiming special/"other" status, offering a solution to people's suffering etc. etc.).

You have not explained why basic scientific facts are 'dogma' in your view

That's why I don't normally engage on these threads. It's not that I haven't tried to debate over the years, but debate is not welcome on MN, not on this topic.

That in itself is a cult-like feature.

The Green Party also has some very uncomfortable bedfellows in people like me - an environmentalist and someone who considers end-stage capitalism a cornerstone of trans ideology! But it is what it is.

It's ironic how closed minded you are for one who speaks of 'nuance'

If there isn't there should be.

I without a thought for myself offer myself up as the collector of the tithes.

Form an orderly queue and please have your pack of tea cakes snowballs or caramel wafers ready.

Motion passed

You haven't debated thpugh

I don't have the stamina to face the inevitable onslaught of negative comments.

Happily I can debate this topic with friends in real life, and we don't just descend into slagging each other off; we can have a proper conversation and compare differing views.

I just wanted to give you a glimpse of the other side of the looking glass, where it's trans-exclusionary feminists who look worryingly like the cult.

And my perspective isn't flippant or knee-jerk, it's born of trauma and first-hand experience, and it's hard-won.

No one is slagging you.

please just explain how you think men can become women?

One thing that is very cult like about GI is it's inability to think for itself.

We saw it with the thought terminating mantras (TWAW), chanted like doctrines, and we see it now with the arguments advanced by feminists being DARVO'd and repurposed (often without making the slightest bit of sense).

You haven’t given anyone a glimpse of anything. You made an incorrect statement and then refused to back it up. That’s ok though. We’ve all been here before.

💯

This is the reason why I apply the sex realist label rather than gender critical.

I find myself quite critical of gender, it's difficult not to be. But my feelings are incompatible with what I see written about trans people in so called 'gender critical' spaces.

I wonder whether the lack of one clear powerful leader makes it less of a cult, and more of a social contagion. But unfortunately a social contagion that fits in well with the needs of the patriarchy and modern capitalism, and the power of which is boosted by social media (another arm of modern capitalism in itself, obviously). A sort of 'perfect storm'.

No, they all think they are the leaders.

TRA discourse is extremely narcissistic. Advocates think that only trans-identifying people's needs matter (amply demonstrated by some live threads right now).

So in a sense, the individual is the 'leader'. The cult is self directed.

No we have a scientifically verifiable agreement that there are two sexes Male and female.

we quite often fall out with each other about who our bed fellows might be.

GC women are not necessarily politically aligned on other areas of politics, some refuse to define themselves as feminist.

the one thing that binds us is our desire to assert our rights as women to say no to males professing to be women.

We could argue about whether you in particular can be a feminist if you centre men.

frankly i can not be arsed.

Interesting! Yes it is narcissistic. I mean even actual science doesn't apply apparently!

Their lived experience is all that matters.

To hell with anyone else's lived experience, obviously

I saw The Crucible a few years ago-a very interesting example of social contagion and what happens if you disagree...

Very very powerful and moving.

Seems very relevant here and was written in 1953.

But TRAs have Volkmar Sirtusch and John Money. What’s your point?

Have you always believed that transwomen are actually women? That they have a womanly gender soul that overrides the material reality of their biological sex?

you hold a faith based ideological beliefs that is quasi religious and cult like.

we believe in material reality. You are the Ken that has been radicalised.

LMFAO. No debate was the mantra from the TRAs not us.

Absolutely extraordinary that people seem to think you need to be in a cult to believe ...

There are two sexes

Humans can't change sex

Women deserve their legally recognised sex based rights upheld.

Do people even hear themselves here?

The reason this board exists in the way it does is because people who conformed to the gender ideology group think/cult closed down speech everywhere else. This was literally the only place for a number of years where anything approaching free thought and free speech on this issue was allowed any space at all.

For people such as myself this is the only forum/platform I now post on - on the internet. I have found great companionship and kinship over the years, and for that I am grateful. When i first realised what was going on in the name of gender ideology I felt very alone.

Cult like behaviour tends towards suppression of alternative perspectives; only the accepted faith is permitted. I suggest you have had a wide field and free range for your particular beliefs for many years now, and have enjoyed the glow of being able to punish and censor those of us who haven't conformed to that particular ideology. Well, not anymore.

I have had messages from MN saying my posts were deleted because I used the c ult word.

I’ve always considered it to be beyond question just like religion can sometimes be but I’m not particularly religious and find it to be cultish like at times so yes seems a good comparison.