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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Catholic sisters in New York sue state over ‘preferred pronouns’ mandate

85 replies

IwantToRetire · 10/04/2026 19:53

The Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne have filed a lawsuit against the State of New York, claiming that new gender identity requirements for nursing homes violate their constitutional rights and would force them to act against their Catholic faith.

In a statement, Mother Marie Edward, the congregation’s superior general, said: “We Sisters have taken care of patients from all walks of life, ideologies and faiths. We treat each patient with dignity and Christian charity. We have never had complaints. We cannot implement New York’s mandate without violating our Catholic faith.”

The lawsuit argues that the law compels the sisters to “act against central, unchangeable and architectural teachings of the Catholic faith”. It adds, “The implications are so much greater than whether to utter the words ‘he’ or ‘she’. Indeed, to demand that a Catholic deny another’s sex is to require him or her to affirm another religious worldview.”

The sisters also argue that the law is applied unevenly. The complaint notes that facilities operated by the Church of Christ, Congregationalist, Scientist are exempt, as the statute does not apply to those “whose teachings include reliance on spiritual means through prayer alone for healing”. This, the sisters contend, amounts to unconstitutional discrimination between religious groups.

Full article at https://thecatholicherald.com/article/new-york-sisters-sue-state-over-preferred-pronouns-mandate (behind paywall and not on archive.ph)

New York sisters sue state over ‘preferred pronouns’ mandate

Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne sue New York State, arguing ‘preferred pronouns’ rules force them to act against their Catholic faith

https://thecatholicherald.com/article/new-york-sisters-sue-state-over-preferred-pronouns-mandate

OP posts:
elgreco · 11/04/2026 12:39

The Vatican issued a statement that you can read regarding Transgenderism.
Essentially though the Catholic church believes that we were made in the image of god and therefore none of us are a "mistake". We cannot be born into the wrong body.

Hoardasurass · 11/04/2026 12:40

Mischance · 11/04/2026 12:29

Just because god is supposed to have created men and women it does not follow that some who feel more comfortable in a different role should not have our respect.
The old testament belongs to a pre scientific judgemental era and can.safely be ignored.
These nuns have removed themselves from normal life and look after people in a care situation. Their task is to be kind to everyone and respect their preferences, not to waste shed loads of money on law suits.

Look im and atheist and dont believe any of the religious crap but other people do. To them its the word of god and must be obeyed.
You dont have to agree with them but you do have to respect their rights to hold those beliefs.
You also dont get to dictate how they express their beliefs or demand that they put them aside fit your personal beliefs.
If you don't like it don't use the service they offer

Apollo441 · 11/04/2026 12:53

Mischance · 11/04/2026 12:29

Just because god is supposed to have created men and women it does not follow that some who feel more comfortable in a different role should not have our respect.
The old testament belongs to a pre scientific judgemental era and can.safely be ignored.
These nuns have removed themselves from normal life and look after people in a care situation. Their task is to be kind to everyone and respect their preferences, not to waste shed loads of money on law suits.

What about the other patients having someone of the wrong sex on their ward and in their bathrooms? Is it kind to them or are their feelings not to be accomodated because in your world view they must be bigots?

MarieDeGournay · 11/04/2026 13:12

elgreco · 11/04/2026 12:39

The Vatican issued a statement that you can read regarding Transgenderism.
Essentially though the Catholic church believes that we were made in the image of god and therefore none of us are a "mistake". We cannot be born into the wrong body.

This is the statement:
Declaration “Dignitas Infinita” on Human Dignity (2 April 2024)
Constituting the person’s being, the soul and the body both participate in the dignity that characterizes every human. Moreover, the body participates in that dignity as it is endowed with personal meanings, particularly in its sexed condition.

Unlike fundamentalist Christian churches, the Catholic Church does not rely directly on the literal words of the Bible.

The Catholic Church's social policies are a lot more nuanced than some people think, for instance the 1891 Encyclical Rerum Novarum was highly critical of capitalism and defended workers' rights.

The Dignitas Infinita declaration condemns a number of abuses, such as violence against women, exploitation of migrant workers, surrogacy, human trafficking etc., as well as transgenderism.

The nuns in this case would no doubt apply the same approach to the people in their care, but within the same limits: whatever a person's sex or sexuality, their body should be respected in whichever biological sex it was created in.

I'm an atheist, and don't believe all that⬆, and disagree with a lot of what the church stands for, but I'm a Catholic atheistSmileand furthermore one who got a good solid education from Dominican nuns!

Brainworm · 11/04/2026 13:18

This is another example of the illiberal left. They identify as being liberal and pluralistic whilst actually being authoritarian.

Mischance · 11/04/2026 13:20

You dont have to agree with them but you do have to respect their rights to hold those beliefs.

And the nuns need to respect the rights of those they care for to hold their beliefs ....

In most care homes rooms have their own toilets and the general toilets are single and unisex. No-one is under threat from anyone here. The nuns are just being nit- picking. They need to Judy get on with their jobs.

Mischance · 11/04/2026 13:20

Just, not Judy!!

Brainworm · 11/04/2026 13:36

Mischance · 11/04/2026 13:20

You dont have to agree with them but you do have to respect their rights to hold those beliefs.

And the nuns need to respect the rights of those they care for to hold their beliefs ....

In most care homes rooms have their own toilets and the general toilets are single and unisex. No-one is under threat from anyone here. The nuns are just being nit- picking. They need to Judy get on with their jobs.

Wouldn’t the best approach because pluralistic one where there is room for different beliefs?

The hospice can provide dignified, respectful and compassionate care without commenting on gender identity. Similarly, those with trans identities, in need of care/ treatment, can accept that not everyone sees them the way they see themselves, and that’s ok.

DeanElderberry · 11/04/2026 14:07

People who run hospices are establishing their right to prioritise religious belief over state pressure because they see the time coming (very soon, they are already having to challenge cases) when they are told their funding is dependent on their agreeing to kill patients instead of managing their end of life care.

Mischance · 11/04/2026 14:21

Religious beliefs should never take precedence over any other beliefs ... this is how we finish up with Iran style regimes.

Religious beliefs are a part of the plethora of human beliefs. They are just one of many.

CruCru · 11/04/2026 14:39

I’ve just read the piece linked to by MissConductUS. The comments are absolute gold.

Realistically, what will be the end result of this? If the state proceeds with prosecuting the nuns, they will probably refuse to pay the fines on the grounds that they are not doing wrong. They may very well willingly go to prison - they may consider it their duty. This will be expensive.

If they decide that it is not in the world’s interest to continue to make a stand on this, they may just cease with their good works (and they are good works - looking after elderly cancer sufferers who can’t afford to pay is really hard work). They may go elsewhere (another state or even another country) to continue their good works. Ultimately the poor souls in New York State lose out.

DeanElderberry · 11/04/2026 14:54

Mischance · 11/04/2026 14:21

Religious beliefs should never take precedence over any other beliefs ... this is how we finish up with Iran style regimes.

Religious beliefs are a part of the plethora of human beliefs. They are just one of many.

Without it we may end up with Canada style regimes, where euthanasia a solution to homelessness.

Justme56 · 11/04/2026 14:58

Rosary Hill Home has 42 beds and the sisters separate men and women by floors. But under the law, if a biological man said he was a woman and demanded to room with females, the nuns would have to oblige. Even over the objections of any women who also lay dying.

I think there is a bit more to it than just pronouns.

GenderlessVoid · 11/04/2026 15:12

Mischance · 11/04/2026 14:21

Religious beliefs should never take precedence over any other beliefs ... this is how we finish up with Iran style regimes.

Religious beliefs are a part of the plethora of human beliefs. They are just one of many.

I don't understand what you're saying.

Are you saying that religious beliefs shouldn't take precedence to members of a religious order? Presumably, they all joined the order because religious beliefs took precedence over many of their other beliefs.

I don't understand the connection to Iran since the order is not part of the government. If NY were putting religious beliefs over other beliefs, I'd agree with you but that's not what is happening here. Here, a religious order (a private group) is providing free care to poor people dying of cancer. They aren't funded by NY, the USA, or other governments. They refuse Medicare and Medicaid (US health care payment systems), presumably because they don't want the government to have any say over what they do. How does allowing them to act in accordance with their religious beliefs lead to an Iran style regime?

JellySaurus · 11/04/2026 15:12

Mischance · 11/04/2026 14:21

Religious beliefs should never take precedence over any other beliefs ... this is how we finish up with Iran style regimes.

Religious beliefs are a part of the plethora of human beliefs. They are just one of many.

These nuns are being told to prioritise other beliefs over their own.

They appear to have managed pluralistic care until now, not requiring patients to profess Catholic, or even just Christian, beliefs.

This reminds me of the Hatzollah ambulances torched in N London recently: our beliefs are right and yours are wrong, therefore we will damage a compassionate service that serves all who need it, regardless of their beliefs.

CruCru · 11/04/2026 15:17

Mischance · 11/04/2026 14:21

Religious beliefs should never take precedence over any other beliefs ... this is how we finish up with Iran style regimes.

Religious beliefs are a part of the plethora of human beliefs. They are just one of many.

This may be the case if the cancer home was run by the state … but it is run by Catholic nuns. They have entirely given up their secular lives in order to live in the faith. If the Catholic Church has given an opinion on an issue then that is the opinion they will adopt.

That New York State requires that people recognise gender identity is probably of little interest to them. Should someone need the care that they offer, they will have to accept that the care is being given by Catholics.

Hoardasurass · 11/04/2026 15:18

Mischance · 11/04/2026 14:21

Religious beliefs should never take precedence over any other beliefs ... this is how we finish up with Iran style regimes.

Religious beliefs are a part of the plethora of human beliefs. They are just one of many.

The same is true of gender ideology and yet you are supporting laws which compelle adherence to gender ideology and still claim to be morally superior to those who have other or no beliefs.
Can you not see the irony of your position?

MissConductUS · 11/04/2026 16:23

CruCru · 11/04/2026 14:39

I’ve just read the piece linked to by MissConductUS. The comments are absolute gold.

Realistically, what will be the end result of this? If the state proceeds with prosecuting the nuns, they will probably refuse to pay the fines on the grounds that they are not doing wrong. They may very well willingly go to prison - they may consider it their duty. This will be expensive.

If they decide that it is not in the world’s interest to continue to make a stand on this, they may just cease with their good works (and they are good works - looking after elderly cancer sufferers who can’t afford to pay is really hard work). They may go elsewhere (another state or even another country) to continue their good works. Ultimately the poor souls in New York State lose out.

I agree about the comments. This one is my favorite:

Harry M
16 hours ago

Who in this entire country is more in need of being brought to heel than nuns working with the poor and elderly. Thankfully the Democrats are on top of this.
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By the way, our governor is quite vocal about her deep Catholic faith. I think she probably likes getting a bit of payback for what the nuns put her through in Catholic school.

CruCru · 11/04/2026 16:28

MissConductUS · 11/04/2026 16:23

I agree about the comments. This one is my favorite:

Harry M
16 hours ago

Who in this entire country is more in need of being brought to heel than nuns working with the poor and elderly. Thankfully the Democrats are on top of this.
Reply
130
Share

By the way, our governor is quite vocal about her deep Catholic faith. I think she probably likes getting a bit of payback for what the nuns put her through in Catholic school.

Yes! I liked that one too.

Mischance · 11/04/2026 16:40

DeanElderberry · 11/04/2026 14:54

Without it we may end up with Canada style regimes, where euthanasia a solution to homelessness.

Firstly that is an unfounded non sequitor about Canada, and secondly there is no evidence that their policies are related or not related to religion or it's absence.
Just wild unsubstantiated statements.

The presence of religion in places like Iran is far more damaging and there is evidence for this; and the christian leader of the USA can hardly be held up as an example of the benefits of religion. The presence of fundamentalist christianity in the US is far more damaging than anything Canada has been able to come up with.

Mischance · 11/04/2026 16:42

Hoardasurass · 11/04/2026 15:18

The same is true of gender ideology and yet you are supporting laws which compelle adherence to gender ideology and still claim to be morally superior to those who have other or no beliefs.
Can you not see the irony of your position?

You do not have to share a Christian or any other faith in order to treat with respect those who do. You do not have to subscribe to gender ideology in order to treat with respect those who do.

Raquelos · 11/04/2026 16:45

.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 11/04/2026 16:53

Mischance · 11/04/2026 16:42

You do not have to share a Christian or any other faith in order to treat with respect those who do. You do not have to subscribe to gender ideology in order to treat with respect those who do.

You do not have to subscribe to gender ideology in order to treat with respect those who do.

Unfortunately the genderists insist that treating with respect those who believe in gender ideology means non-believers must adopt compelled speech & anti-science positions. Anything less than full on acceptance that TWAW is heresy.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 11/04/2026 16:54

Mischance · 11/04/2026 16:40

Firstly that is an unfounded non sequitor about Canada, and secondly there is no evidence that their policies are related or not related to religion or it's absence.
Just wild unsubstantiated statements.

The presence of religion in places like Iran is far more damaging and there is evidence for this; and the christian leader of the USA can hardly be held up as an example of the benefits of religion. The presence of fundamentalist christianity in the US is far more damaging than anything Canada has been able to come up with.

I have no love for fundamental any religion, but how has The presence of fundamentalist christianity in the US is far more damaging than anything Canada has been able to come up with. ?

You do not have to subscribe to gender ideology in order to treat with respect those who do. Why? they believe in something that is manifestly stupid, why do we have to respect stupid.

Brainworm · 11/04/2026 17:05

Mischance · 11/04/2026 16:42

You do not have to share a Christian or any other faith in order to treat with respect those who do. You do not have to subscribe to gender ideology in order to treat with respect those who do.

If you aren’t religious it isn’t considered disrespectful not to say ‘peace be upon him’ after naming a prophet, or not saying Amen after someone has blessed a meal.

You do t have to partake in the practices of believers to be respectful.