Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

What healthcare is required by physically healthy trans kids?

My husband and son started their growth spurts at 14 and were 6'4"/6'5" by 17.

You clearly do not believe trans children and youth exist. So this discussion ends.

I am concerned that there are children and youth being harmed by whatever has driven them to request and acquire treatment that they should not have been pursuing.

Do you have any suggestions about how they could be identified in advance in order to prevent this harm?

Because the onus is on proponents of GAC to prove that it makes patients healthier. If they can't prove it, it can't continue, at least not in children.

They can either probe existing data (which they're currently resisting making available), or invent a trial that's both ethical and reliably gives the information needed (which is proving tricky).

What have I said to make you believe that?
I fully acknowledge the existence of gender dysphoria in children.
I know teens who have identified as transgender.
I asked you a question, and even referred to them using your terminology "trans kids", as Im very keen to read your answer
What healthcare is required by physically healthy children who identify as transgender/ trans kids ?

@theilltemperedamateur

I know what I went through and I'd hope clinicians and experts would have been able to diagnose and mediate access more effectively in the decades since I went through this. My suggestions would primarily begin with 'do better.'

The onus isn't on proponents. It is on clinicians.

No one here believes I am well adjusted and productive. I am apparently the victim of a sad tale of grooming, cultural shunning and life long crippling health problems. I have advocated here on this board, for the first time in my life, that trans children be able to access care. The environment today is far different. I have no answers. But I do know that completely withdrawing access is harmful.

Your modification of the question using the context "physically healthy" tells me that you believe treatment induces an unhealthy state.

“Trans children” post the CASS review is now a term in the dustbin where it belongs.

Children may be, for all manner of reasons gender questioning. which is now the recognised, correct phrase.

Internet and educative indoctrination being a couple of the raft of issues.

These children do need mental health care to come to terms with the body that belongs to them.

If they persist with this belief into full adulthood (

You're unequivocally a man.

I cannot remember if I've said this before to you, but of course you are entitled to maintain this belief.

“Trans children” post the CASS review is now a term in the dustbin where it belongs.

Children may be, for all manner of reasons gender questioning. which is now the recognised, correct phrase.

Internet and educative indoctrination being a couple of the raft of issues.

These children do need mental health care to come to terms with the body that belongs to them.

If they persist with this belief into full adulthood (25+) i am not going to concern myself if they choose extreme body modifications.

That though is plastic surgery, not healthcare, and IMHO should not be funded by the NHS.

Sure - that is my and others belief with a rising sum of research that backs this position up.

Since i can never know who has or has not had said extreme surgery, it seems to me good men stay out of female services so that bad men cannot go in.

Any procedure that is elective extreme body modification that is done for the purpose of an identity that leaves a human body with any life need of medication that they did not have prior to the procedure is one that has induced that body into an unhealthy state.

You've got a husband @onepostwonder?

So you're a gay man, then.

It's the truth though.
You haven't changed sex.

I don't disbelieve that you're happy and healthy. But you said that children have been harmed by treatment they should not have had. The treatment cannot be ethical unless those children are identified and not treated. How would you identify them?

Plenty of treatments are ethical in one context and abused in others. I do not have answers. If everyone was like me, I would have lots to talk about. I'm not going to make statements that affect others with no knowledge of the environment or circumstances of their experience.

That is yet another belief you feel entitled to possess and share. Good on you.

A new video from Sapir on the incoherence of the definitions of gender and gender identity that are the basis for these ‘treatments’.

x.com/leorsapir/status/2042613377143321061?s=46

oops I missed onepostwonders comment that those entering te Finnish study were not children. It is the definition of a median that it's the middle value of a data set so normally 50% less than and 50% more than. It's a bit more complicated when you dont have continous numbers. They only accepted people up to 23 so it's quite possible there were a considerable number who were 18. Still something like 50% would be children and the rest didnt have fully mature brains.

I dont know enough about the authors of the study to know if other claims have as little foundation in truth but when someone starts with a demonstrably false statement I tend not to place much credence on the rest. Perhaps as onepostwonder doesnt live up (down?) to their name they'd like to evidence the other claims? Edit ti add - the number of contacts with psychiatric services is in the paper.

The claim that the brain matures until age 25 is a fallacy. You can google it and everything. Here's somewhere to start: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-student-contributors/25-really-magic-number

At age 18.5, a majority of the paper subjects were already adults before they initiated first contact with intake at the clinic. As access to care required at least a year and more likely two years of administration and assessment, this places the initiation of treatment into their 20s.

This study cannot make any sensible claims about the treatment or outcomes experienced by children.

I see he is back. Box of tissues handy?

I think its now 'gender incongruent'.

I used the phrase "physically healthy" because medically unhealthy kids obviously do need healthcare.

Most trans kids are physically healthy before treatment. They tend to have many and complex mental/psychological comorditities, at rates far higher than in the general population, as I'm sure you're aware.
So tell us : What healthcare do you believe is required for physically healthy trans kids?

If one is working with the 'tiny number of true trans' children position, and accedes that most 'gender incongruent' children desist, which I assume is Cass' rough position, we are looking either at allowing those tiny number to go through puberty or we are looking at sterilising and harming a far higher number who then desist.

Can anyone explain why the former group's wellbeing is supposed to outweigh the latter's?

Whatever their clinicians are prepared to provide.

If there are no clinicians, then it gets morally complicated, but I would approve of physically healthy trans adolescents personally pursuing non-clinical care. "Personal motivation and initiative" has been proven to be an expedited gateway to informed consent access to care because the initial barriers to care and diagnosis have already been surpassed.