Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

Do you mean medicine?
Or counseling/mental health services?

Many people think it's beyond morally complicated when children are offered powerful drugs with known, serious and long-term side effects and no sound evidence of benefit were given to kids who wouldn't be allowed get a tattoo, even with parental consent.

"Personal motivation and initiative" has been proven to be an expedited gateway to informed consent access to care because the initial barriers to care and diagnosis have already been surpassed.

Someone really, really wanting something is not a substitute for diagnosis and evidence based care.

See 'the eunuch maker' trial.

Matterhorn?

I mean medicine, I mean counseling, access to change government documents, everything.

Parents and adults generally share no hesitation in sacrificing their children to life-long physical damage from sport and dance. Boys do a lot of stupid things that have been universally demonstrated to shorten lifespan. Youth are routinely celebrated for sacrificing their lives in the name of patriotism and national identity.

As far as medicine goes, yes HRT can have side effects that will shorten someone's life. Acetaminophen and ibuprofen negatively affect more lives. Sex-based effects, often labeled damaging by sex realists, are to be expected and are desired by trans people. Trans people are familiar with the potential for circulatory system damage, activation of autoimmune disorders and increased susceptibility to sex-based cancer. These can come with the package.

Counseling...I'm very much with you there.
Medicine.....What medicine do you feel could legitimately be prescribed to, say, a 14 year old trans kid who is physically healthy?
Access to change government documents! As a treatment for gender dysphoria! For a child!
You can't be serious?

I've known two people who removed their own testes before they were 18. They were expedited into the system very quickly and provided trans healthcare years quicker than they otherwise would have once it was established they were not impacted by any other mental illness.

My own entry into transition-focused care was initiated through personal motivation and initiative of another means.

You're right though. It is no substitute. The fact that diagnosis and evidence-based care are unavailable to some youth can force them to take care into their own hands.

And you would inflict those sorts of harms on adolescence to confirm your own world view?

and as for clinicians, the book by Hannah Barnes “time to think” described in detail the absolute gung-ho hoe approach of some of these clinicians.

I'm not inflicting anyone with anything. I also don't have a 'world view.'

You want to know what I think about trans children and adolescents and care. I am thinking about it for the first time and all I have is extrapolating from my own experience.

I'm not responsible for anyone's treatment or non-treatment. Clinicians are, health systems are, experts are. I'm an old fart who made life work for me. I hope others are as lucky.

And are you really compparing sport and dance to cross sex hormones/puberty blockers?
Show me any research linking sport and dance to comparable harm (infertility/bone loss/reduced sexual function/stroke etc)

Not only is @onepostwonder unconcerned about the harms of gender affirming "care" on kids, he belittles it and wishes it upon them

These are lies that are probably actionable. However, I understand sex realist/gender critical beliefs require these accusations of non-believers.

@onepostwonder why don't you tell Jonni Skinner,Ritchie Herron, Keira Bell and Sinéad Watson that the medical treatment they regret, permanently damaged their bodies and health and left them with lifelong consequences..... That they insist they didn't have the capacity to consent to..... is actually no bigger deal than my nephew being signed up to rugby, my students doing boxing....

@onepostwonder I said nothing about age 25 - yes current thinking is that it may take under 32, considerably older than the maximum age of 23 allowed in the study.

What makes you think adults would be more in need of psychiatric support than children?

I think anyone removing their own healthy body parts has a mental health issue. It is absurd to say that there is no mental health issue when someone chooses to do this.

The fact that diagnosis and evidence-based care are unavailable to some youth can force them to take care into their own hands

Cutting off your own penis and testicles is not "care".

A child who tries to castrate himself is an urgent safeguarding situation. And the solution to self harm is not harm inflicted by medics.

• or anybody else. Which why Gustav the Eunuch maker is in prison..

If you recall? Have you read the study?

Which of the authors are “members of organisations formed to prevent trans people from accessing treatment” and which organisations are you referring to?

The studies tend to ask trans youth and their families directly whether children are happy, adjusting and thriving rather than fold contextless numbers together to manufacture a crisis in mental health.

So the studies that show medically transitioning children in a positive light rely on self-reported subjectivity rather than objective data. There are those words again.

So you subscribe to the latest goal claimed by gender clinicians that it doesn’t matter how bad things are or how much objective harm there is, as long as kids say they’re happy they got what they wanted, it can be considered a good outcome?

But, you asked about concern about the mental health of trans children. I am really concerned that they are being harmed by the absence of healthcare access in this country. I am concerned that they have been excluded from care because there is a larger cohort of non-trans children who have requested and received trans-oriented treatments that should not be receiving treatment. Some of these children ultimately detransition, others will presumably be living as the opposite sex for the remainder of their lives.

So you think there should be MORE child gender clinics because that would mean they’d be better at giving the right children hormones and not the wrong children hormones like they do now😵‍💫

So how does a well-funded, well-trained and staffed child gender service correctly identify the children who SHOULD get hormones? What are the objective criteria, do you think?

And you are acknowledging that they’ve given the wrong children hormones. Why? What was wrong about them? What should have been the exclusion criteria?

Should there be any consequences of these grave errors, given the lifelong impacts on these children?

And how will having bigger and better services prevent these problems?

Males who received treatment to become females were psychologically healthier than all other cohorts entering the study, according to the framing

Males cannot become females.
It's impossible.

I agree with 32. I definitely know people who shouldn't have moved out of their parents' home until at least 32.

I don't think adults would be more in need of psychiatric support than children.

The paper cannot state conclusions about children because the subjects of the study weren't children.

Yes. Gender dysphoria or whatever it's called these days is a mental health issue.

Trans health care is not harmful for the population it is designed to help.

The paper cannot state conclusions about children because the subjects of the study weren't children.

What are you talking about? The study followed children into adulthood.

PP is unwilling to answer these questions despite being the one person here who might actually have some relevant insight. And doesn't seem to appreciate that GAC will get banned anyway if they remain unanswered, and if it isn’t proved to be more helpful than harmful overall.

Frankly I'm losing patience. Rather a thousand 'trans children' have to wait until they're thirty, than a single 'cis child' gets their health wrecked.

What health care do trans people need?