Late night surprise about reputation of FWR

[IwantToRetire]

I was on Site Stuff to report back on ongoing freezing and noticed another thread about whether Mumsnet should apologise about deleting threads about ongoing conflict in the Middle East.

And there were some comments about there being a border line between legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and anti semitism. And it is this last that get these threads deleted.

So was surprised to see some comment on this thread saying it was as bad as some threads on FWR, and those particularly at fault are thos with a GC view point.

(Funnily enough AI suggested a title for this thread along the lines of "Are FWR debates judged differently ..... " but now it has hidden its suggestion, just when I was going to use it.)

Oh its come back

"Are sex and gender debates on FWR judged by different standards?"

Interested in what game 😂

Do TRAs have exclusivity on ADHD and autism?

Maybe that being kind shit should be emphasised to those swearing about their disability in terms of extending the same grace rather than just calling everyone rude / aggressive etc.

Tbh I think the term being used here is merely a gendered word - women can not be forthright, direct or assertive because otherwise they are aggressive.

Surely someone that tired would write 'sigh' on every post, not just the ones making reluctant apology?

Having known people with (variously) Parkinson's Disease, Myasthenia Gravis and Multiple Sclerosis, I'm prepared to let someone who may have something of that sort express themselves as they wish.

I've known plenty of people with Autism and ADHD who are gender critical.

People can express themselves as they wish, yes. All of us.

@DrBlackbird

I have never seen, not once, one of the bekind posters respond in any meaningful way with key questions about allowing men who say they’re women into all female single sex spaces. Occasionally, a poster will say they don’t agree with trans identifying men into women’s sports but then stop there and never explain how that circle is meant to be squared with also insisting we should use female pronouns ‘just to be nice’.

I did explain upthread somewhere that I am not a TRA or agree with anything they say. This means no men in female spaces or sports, and no use of female pronouns. I have never suggested anything different.

I don’t have autism or ADHD, but secondary progressive MS.

I have significant physical challenges, but one of the most upsetting for me is ‘anomia’ - difficulty in retrieving words. I used to be a writer but had to retire quite early because of this. I still do work in some IT roles from home though.

Sorry you received some flak.

I'm sorry that you're going through that, @ItsNotOrwell

Thank you, Edith.

Perhaps that was a snipe at you @DeanElderberry but also it might have been to highlight how many posters accuse these threads of being haters and yet there you were being genuinely kind. Whilst these bekind posters are themselves rather unkind or at least uninterested in or disinclined to acknowledge other poster’s trauma.

Well @ItsNotOrwell then I’m perplexed how this all unfolded. Perhaps there’s a conversation to be had in how labelling FWR posters as hostile rather than ‘fed up’ or ‘robust’ or ‘forthright’ might be more accurate representation?

Being labelled as aggressive or hostile really feels like the final misogynistic accusation because, as @Ereshkigalangcleg says, we can all express ourselves as we wish cant we?

Dare I say, even aggressively? If a reply sounds or seems or feels hostile, then there’s also some appreciation for why that might be when others on these threads have spent years trying to regain lost space, words, rights for women.

Including, as I’ve said, at cost to themselves. I mean thank the bloody god for FWS clawing back women’s rights in law. Where would we be but that SC ruling.

Finally, much of our language and spaces and podiums and prisons were lost and children’s bodies butchered precisely because too many people thought they were being kind when they were anything but!

No, they do not. I am autistic.

Calling certain posters’ responses aggressive or hostile does not come from a place of misogyny.

I’m not certain why you would blame men for the way you treat women, now, on this board. I don’t even see particularly see the relevance. If anything, those things should drive greater civility and harmony within groups of women, rather than constant friction.

I agree with Eresh’s statement to a point. The irony though is it’s unlikely I’ll be unable to use this username to comment on the board any further. So we can’t all express ourselves as we wish, it seems.

Give over.

You could use that username all you want. People disagreeing with you is just that... People disagreeing with you.

A working model of where BeKind gets you. Compromise on one side. Continued accusation on the other.

You cam carry on using the same user name on a board where a lot of posters disagree with you...

You can even change your mind and keep the same user name.

I really don’t see how that follows. It’s entirely up to you whether you change your name or not. I haven’t changed mine in nearly a decade, apart from sometimes to comment on entirely non political issues. It’s not the fault of posters here if you decide to change your name. You were disagreed with on an anonymous online forum, that’s all. I doubt there is a poster on this thread who hasn’t felt hard done by in a discussion online before.

Interesting that you now seem to be attempting to play the victim in some way. You came onto FWR and accused posters of aggressive and hostile posting, and have taken the counter arguments badly. We're allowed to respond / stand up for ourselves.

It is tone policing, and you should expect push back on that.

It doesn't matter whether you change your name or not. Nobody is going to target you because of your accusation.

That’s curious, because that’s what has occurred in the past, ie. after being attacked (are you a man/are you a paedophile/a TRA/do you hate women/your username is suspicious/etc) if I keep the same username and post again, my previous posts are brought up. We know what you think. I see the TRA have turned up …

So better to start off fresh. I have no particular attachment to a username.

why you would blame men for the way you treat women, now, on this board is an interesting interpretation of what I said. I don’t think anyone is ‘treating’ women in any particular manner on this board. It’s a discussion forum and people post and others respond to that post.

Being told not to be aggressive or hostile is the same, to me, as when men tell women to ‘calm down’, which is misogynistic. It’s enforcing a patriarchal system that regulates and upholds prevailing norms and expectations of women to suit men. Including expectations of ‘feminine’ behaviour eg expecting women to be civil or harmonious even when discussing loss of their rights and language.

Repeating that pattern, possibly inadvertently, in terms of calling on women to be polite, be kind, not to be or sound aggressive or hostile is misogynistic. When done by women to other women it’s an extension of that misogynistic thinking that women are not allowed to be angry. If not misogynistic, then we can call it controlling - telling others how they’re allowed to speak.

When men do it to women, it’s often because they’re feeling uncomfortable but expecting the woman to adjust her behaviour and emotions to make him feel comfortable. Regardless of how we label it, the outcome is a focus on the delivery and not the substance of the argument. Anyhow, we will have to leave it there and agree that we disagree on this particular subject.

But fgs there is absolutely no need to change your user name. However if you want to, then do. It can be an experiment to see if others are responding to your username or your arguments.

Out of interest, what were you posting to get the response 'are you a paedophile'? And was that response allowed to stand?

It was my username at the time, ironically. Someone just didn’t like it. I think they were looking for anything to criticise. And no, it was deleted after it was reported. It isn’t the first time it’s occurred though, and not just to me.

Why is it a problem to bring up your previous posts? Do you resile from them?

If you post under a new name are you going to say something different? If not, what difference will it make to use a new name?

No, I don’t recant anything I’ve written. But previous history is thrown up as an excuse to ignore what I say (for example).

If people want to ignore you, they will. It's not your right to have anyone respond to you.

From another angle your suggestion is that there are people who follow what you write and have decided on the basis of it not to engage with you. Changing your username to fool them into thinking you're someone else so they respond is really rather deceitful, isn't it?

You make a point under name A, and people disagree with you.

You come back and make he same point under name A, and people ignore you because they've already had the conversation.

You come back and make the same point under name B, the same people disagree with you for exactly the same reasons. Nobody is any further forward but we've all had our time wasted - you included.

Why bother?