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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Not again! - Government is proposing to allow trans-identifying boys into under 18s girls’ school sport - unless it is deemed unsafe

213 replies

Another2Cats · 06/04/2026 10:29

Very much as the title. An account I follow on Twitter/X @ SEENinSport posted this tweet.

https://x.com/SportSEENuk/status/2041037786082329070?s=20

Apparently there is an open consultation from the Dept for Education

'Keeping children safe in education: 2026 proposed revisions'

One of these revisions is that schools may choose to allow boys to take part in girls sports. There are also other issues about 'social transitioning'

It says that there are "some" sports that "may" need to be played in single-sex groups from a certain age. Frankly though, I can't think of any school sports that shouldn't be single-sex activities.

Apart from these sort of 'maybe' sports, the new guidance says that schools will need to consider any boys requesting to play in girls sports in light of the advice on "considering requests for support with social transition"

This is from paras 96 and 97 of the draft proposed changes:

96 Some sports may need to be played in single-sex groups from a certain age to ensure children’s safety, and where this is the case there should be no exceptions. In other cases, schools or colleges may have adopted a policy of single-sex sports for reasons related to fairness.

97 Where there are no safety concerns and a child makes a request relating to
how they participate, schools and colleges will need to consider the request in light of the advice on “considering requests for support with social transition”. This means that the school or college would need to take into account all the relevant factors, including whether supporting social transition is overall in the best interests of the child, as well as considering the impact on other children and the aim of creating safe and fair environments for children to participate in PE.

Frankly, the whole thing about even considering "supporting social transition" is entirely wrong, I feel.

Link to the proposed revisions:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/independent-education-and-school-safeguarding-division/keeping-children-safe-in-education-2026-revisions/supporting_documents/keeping_children_safe_in_education_2026_draft_for_consultationpdf-1

.

SEENinSport has suggested the following:

The survey has 41 questions but Q35 is the key one for sport

If you only have a couple of minutes, you can press return for each question till you reach Q35

They also have a link to suggested answers here:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/67fa41451fd5090aa3fb410b/t/69ceb2a41c966b1fc3a00b94/1775153828864/KCSIE+SEEN+in+Sport+response+Feb+2026+%286%29.pdf

and their website page on the issue is here:

https://www.seeninsport.org/consultation-on-kcsie-2026

The consultation is open until 22nd April and if you wish to contribute your thoughts on any of the questions then the government consultation form is here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/independent-education-and-school-safeguarding-division/keeping-children-safe-in-education-2026-revisions/consultation/intro/

https://consult.education.gov.uk/independent-education-and-school-safeguarding-division/keeping-children-safe-in-education-2026-revisions/supporting_documents/keeping_children_safe_in_education_2026_draft_for_consultationpdf-1

OP posts:
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6
SinnerBoy · 08/04/2026 16:40

Rightsraptor · 06/04/2026 12:26

What are these sports that girls & boys can compete in equally and safely?

Erm, country dancing, quoits, pin the tail on the donkey, apple bobbing...

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 17:34

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 08:10

The boxer isnt a trans woman, and the other thing is that women have beat that boxer before.

Ah 'the Imane Khelif was beaten by women before' statement - great, I love this because I can exercise my inner boxing nerd [there's a bit of boxing in my family history].

Khelif competed in the Tokyo Olympics in the lightweight division, where he was trounced by the Irish boxer Kellie Harrington to win bronze on her way to win the gold. Unanimous decision.

However at the Paris Olympics, Khelif fought as a welterweight - meaning that in the intervening 3 years [the Tokyo Olympics was held over for a year because of Covid,] he had put on approx. 10kg.

If a woman tries to put on 10k in 3 years, it will probably go on as fat [in fact, another Irish boxer, Amy Broadhurst, tried to move up a weight division and failed dismally for that very reason].

Because Khelif had been through male puberty, the 10kg he put on was muscle, bone density etc.

I doubt if even Kellie Harrington would have beaten Khelif v.2024.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2026 17:38

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 17:34

Ah 'the Imane Khelif was beaten by women before' statement - great, I love this because I can exercise my inner boxing nerd [there's a bit of boxing in my family history].

Khelif competed in the Tokyo Olympics in the lightweight division, where he was trounced by the Irish boxer Kellie Harrington to win bronze on her way to win the gold. Unanimous decision.

However at the Paris Olympics, Khelif fought as a welterweight - meaning that in the intervening 3 years [the Tokyo Olympics was held over for a year because of Covid,] he had put on approx. 10kg.

If a woman tries to put on 10k in 3 years, it will probably go on as fat [in fact, another Irish boxer, Amy Broadhurst, tried to move up a weight division and failed dismally for that very reason].

Because Khelif had been through male puberty, the 10kg he put on was muscle, bone density etc.

I doubt if even Kellie Harrington would have beaten Khelif v.2024.

Great explanation!

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 17:46

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 08:21

The boxer in your example was raised female and has some sort of genetic condition. That isn't the same as someone who was born and raised as a male and has normal male anatomy etc. It isn't as simple as a man putting on a bra and turning up at boxing. It is disingenuous to say otherwise and it means that people won't even listen to the facts about their condition as it seems like you are lying for nefarious reasons.

Obviously, Khelif is able to be beaten by women despite not being the same as them. That means people who aren't women arent always stronger and better than those who are women.

I posted my boxing-nerd post before reading this one of yours, but the same points apply.

I happen to believe that Khelif was believed to be a girl, and that up to a point he thought so too, but as soon as he was taken up by the 'machine' which saw him as a good bet for an Algerian gold medal, his physique was maximised to a level made possible by the fact that he had gone through male puberty.

And as a result, this' person who isn't a woman', in other words this man, was stronger and better than all the women in the women's welterweight division at the 2024 Olympics.
That's where the unfairness arises, because he was fighting in the wrong branch of the sport, and why World Boxing and the IOC have reaffirmed that eligibility for women's boxing should be as carefully enforced as eligibility for weight divisions.

edited to ask: you don't think welterweights should fight heavyweights, do you? should they just whine less and train harder?

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 17:48

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 17:34

Ah 'the Imane Khelif was beaten by women before' statement - great, I love this because I can exercise my inner boxing nerd [there's a bit of boxing in my family history].

Khelif competed in the Tokyo Olympics in the lightweight division, where he was trounced by the Irish boxer Kellie Harrington to win bronze on her way to win the gold. Unanimous decision.

However at the Paris Olympics, Khelif fought as a welterweight - meaning that in the intervening 3 years [the Tokyo Olympics was held over for a year because of Covid,] he had put on approx. 10kg.

If a woman tries to put on 10k in 3 years, it will probably go on as fat [in fact, another Irish boxer, Amy Broadhurst, tried to move up a weight division and failed dismally for that very reason].

Because Khelif had been through male puberty, the 10kg he put on was muscle, bone density etc.

I doubt if even Kellie Harrington would have beaten Khelif v.2024.

"Irish fighter Broadhurst is one of those who got the better of Khelif, doing so in the 2022 Women’s World Championship 63kg Final."

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 08/04/2026 17:49

I’m interested in the idea presented by a few PPs, namely that just saying that women and girls are physically weaker than men and boys is in some way insulting to women, and encourages them away from sports or other physical activities.

I’m interested, because I’m curious about how this idea came about. I am not a sociologist (related field but only slightly) and I am definitely not a historian of sociology, so I don’t have a good answer to how we got here.

And just to be clear, the “here” that I think we have got to is this idea that describing someone as “physically weaker” has a value judgement added to it. But the fact is, some people are stronger, some are weaker and that is just a description of the world in the same way that we can say bricks are harder to put your hand through than water. Just a fact.

The likelihood is that the value judgement comes at least in part from the fact that men have traditionally been seen as the default human, so being strong (men are indeed stronger) was seen as the important (or default or better or desired) thing, and being less strong (women are overall less strong) was less valued.

But the value judgement is something humans have assigned to the strength difference - it isn’t intrinsic to the strength difference itself. The strength difference just is.

If that idea seems too much, try thinking about whether you would criticise someone for saying that a newborn is less strong than a teenager. You wouldn’t, because of course they are, and you don’t place any value on that difference.

There should equally be no value judgement placed on the strength difference between men and women. And yet for some people it seems to be virtually heretical to say, no, actually, girls can’t physically do everything that boys can do, or at least not to the same level/at the same speed/etc.

Anyone with any coherent thoughts on why that is? (I have a few, but they’re not yet coherent enough in my head to share…)

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 17:53

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 08/04/2026 17:49

I’m interested in the idea presented by a few PPs, namely that just saying that women and girls are physically weaker than men and boys is in some way insulting to women, and encourages them away from sports or other physical activities.

I’m interested, because I’m curious about how this idea came about. I am not a sociologist (related field but only slightly) and I am definitely not a historian of sociology, so I don’t have a good answer to how we got here.

And just to be clear, the “here” that I think we have got to is this idea that describing someone as “physically weaker” has a value judgement added to it. But the fact is, some people are stronger, some are weaker and that is just a description of the world in the same way that we can say bricks are harder to put your hand through than water. Just a fact.

The likelihood is that the value judgement comes at least in part from the fact that men have traditionally been seen as the default human, so being strong (men are indeed stronger) was seen as the important (or default or better or desired) thing, and being less strong (women are overall less strong) was less valued.

But the value judgement is something humans have assigned to the strength difference - it isn’t intrinsic to the strength difference itself. The strength difference just is.

If that idea seems too much, try thinking about whether you would criticise someone for saying that a newborn is less strong than a teenager. You wouldn’t, because of course they are, and you don’t place any value on that difference.

There should equally be no value judgement placed on the strength difference between men and women. And yet for some people it seems to be virtually heretical to say, no, actually, girls can’t physically do everything that boys can do, or at least not to the same level/at the same speed/etc.

Anyone with any coherent thoughts on why that is? (I have a few, but they’re not yet coherent enough in my head to share…)

Girls arent physically weaker than boys until puberty. There is no biological reason for separating boys and girls in sport until at least then. The reason why 7 year old boys are more athletic than girls as children is socialisation. Girls are told that they are slower, weaker and more fragile than boys from a very young age. Their parents don't encourage them to work on thise kids of physical attributes. Thats why you have really little girls already thinking they can't do what the boys can and feeling intimidated by their presence. Their parents have told them the boys will always win and will hurt them in the meantime.

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 17:55

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 17:48

"Irish fighter Broadhurst is one of those who got the better of Khelif, doing so in the 2022 Women’s World Championship 63kg Final."

That was the year she tried to reach the weight for the Olympic weight division which is 66kg, and it backfired seriously on her personally and careerwise. She said at the time '
'I go from looking at myself in the mirror at 60kg being toned and having a six-pack to then going up to 66kg and not being in the shape that I was in.'
if I was to stay at this weight for another four years I don’t think I would because I’m getting hits to the head that I shouldn’t really be taking because I’m not naturally this size.'

Khelif didn't experience that.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 18:05

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 17:55

That was the year she tried to reach the weight for the Olympic weight division which is 66kg, and it backfired seriously on her personally and careerwise. She said at the time '
'I go from looking at myself in the mirror at 60kg being toned and having a six-pack to then going up to 66kg and not being in the shape that I was in.'
if I was to stay at this weight for another four years I don’t think I would because I’m getting hits to the head that I shouldn’t really be taking because I’m not naturally this size.'

Khelif didn't experience that.

So Imane lost yes? To a woman? A woman who only weighed 66kg! So by your eyes, a man lost to a woman of a comparable weight. Yes or no?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 08/04/2026 18:49

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 17:53

Girls arent physically weaker than boys until puberty. There is no biological reason for separating boys and girls in sport until at least then. The reason why 7 year old boys are more athletic than girls as children is socialisation. Girls are told that they are slower, weaker and more fragile than boys from a very young age. Their parents don't encourage them to work on thise kids of physical attributes. Thats why you have really little girls already thinking they can't do what the boys can and feeling intimidated by their presence. Their parents have told them the boys will always win and will hurt them in the meantime.

I’ll let these posts (and others on the thread) from Helle respond to the first part of your post (but note the finding that The Male-Female Performance Gap Is Evident before Puberty):

MALE CHILDREN HAVE GREATER GRIP STRENGTH FROM BIRTH:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?reply=149883816&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

CHILDREN’s MUSCLE STRENGTH DIFFERENCES DUE TO SEX:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?reply=148895275&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

The ontogeny of sex differences in exercise performance:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?reply=151170024&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

However, to your other point: one of the single strongest predictors of girls discontinuing sports - even for girls who are really good at it and are encouraged by everyone around them - is having to play/compete against boys. Thus things like Judy Murray’s programme to teach tennis to girls separately from boys. Her programme isn’t just “tell the girls they can do it” whilst leaving them with the boys, it is “teach the girls completely away from the boys.”

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 18:59

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 18:05

So Imane lost yes? To a woman? A woman who only weighed 66kg! So by your eyes, a man lost to a woman of a comparable weight. Yes or no?

I think you're mixing up the timescales! they were both fighting at light-welter, 60-63.
Khelif fought at 66kg in Paris, Broadhurst wasn't able to succeed above her natural weight.

In those early defeats against two Irish boxers, it was noted that Khelif wasn't a very skilled boxer, and seemed to depend on his long reach and waiting for mistake to land a punch; he was a fighter rather than a boxer.

You know what they say: 'Box a fighter and fight a boxer' - both Broadhurst and Harrington had the skill and the experience to beat him at that weight.

But the extra weight he put on before Paris was muscle and bone density not flab, because he had been through male puberty.
Ultimately, his male advantages in strength, reach, lung capacity etc meant that even the best women boxers couldn't stand up to him.

Khelif was boxing in the right weight division, but the wrong sport: he should have brought his 66kg into the ring with a man of the same weight in the men's boxing competition, not the women's.

KnottyAuty · 09/04/2026 09:02

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2026 18:59

I think you're mixing up the timescales! they were both fighting at light-welter, 60-63.
Khelif fought at 66kg in Paris, Broadhurst wasn't able to succeed above her natural weight.

In those early defeats against two Irish boxers, it was noted that Khelif wasn't a very skilled boxer, and seemed to depend on his long reach and waiting for mistake to land a punch; he was a fighter rather than a boxer.

You know what they say: 'Box a fighter and fight a boxer' - both Broadhurst and Harrington had the skill and the experience to beat him at that weight.

But the extra weight he put on before Paris was muscle and bone density not flab, because he had been through male puberty.
Ultimately, his male advantages in strength, reach, lung capacity etc meant that even the best women boxers couldn't stand up to him.

Khelif was boxing in the right weight division, but the wrong sport: he should have brought his 66kg into the ring with a man of the same weight in the men's boxing competition, not the women's.

Sportsmen can beat women (in many but not all cases) because of male physical/pubertal advantage - which compensates for lesser skill or prowess. Which is the fundamental unfairness of men in the female category.

If women dont have a sports category of their own then eventually there won’t be any female sport - as seen in pool/billiards where 2 males competed in a final to win women’s prize money. Over time that small example would ultimately become the norm due to the prestige and financial benefits available to “winners”. Why wouldn’t men take advantage of that when gender self ID requires little change but confers huge benefit?

Everything will be much clearer when sex testing means that Khelif reverts to competing against males. And presumably he won’t meet the skill standards for his sex class to be able to return to the Olympics…

On the point about not wanting to admit women are weaker - it comes to the historical problems that this difference was used to keep women out of public life. To get equality to this stage we had to emphasise no difference. Going forward a more nuanced argument is needed because the no difference line of reasoning has somewhat backfired?!

BonfireLady · 09/04/2026 12:15

KnottyAuty · 09/04/2026 09:02

Sportsmen can beat women (in many but not all cases) because of male physical/pubertal advantage - which compensates for lesser skill or prowess. Which is the fundamental unfairness of men in the female category.

If women dont have a sports category of their own then eventually there won’t be any female sport - as seen in pool/billiards where 2 males competed in a final to win women’s prize money. Over time that small example would ultimately become the norm due to the prestige and financial benefits available to “winners”. Why wouldn’t men take advantage of that when gender self ID requires little change but confers huge benefit?

Everything will be much clearer when sex testing means that Khelif reverts to competing against males. And presumably he won’t meet the skill standards for his sex class to be able to return to the Olympics…

On the point about not wanting to admit women are weaker - it comes to the historical problems that this difference was used to keep women out of public life. To get equality to this stage we had to emphasise no difference. Going forward a more nuanced argument is needed because the no difference line of reasoning has somewhat backfired?!

Which all translates to the following for the purposes of the schools' guidance:

  • no school should have a policy where all PE lessons are mixed-sex. Instead, schools should either determine single-sex lesson provision on a case by case basis (per sport, not level of ability) or should have a policy with single-sex provision for all PE lessons. Where a PE lesson has been determined as single-sex, no member the opposite sex should be admitted.
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