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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Not again! - Government is proposing to allow trans-identifying boys into under 18s girls’ school sport - unless it is deemed unsafe

213 replies

Another2Cats · 06/04/2026 10:29

Very much as the title. An account I follow on Twitter/X @ SEENinSport posted this tweet.

https://x.com/SportSEENuk/status/2041037786082329070?s=20

Apparently there is an open consultation from the Dept for Education

'Keeping children safe in education: 2026 proposed revisions'

One of these revisions is that schools may choose to allow boys to take part in girls sports. There are also other issues about 'social transitioning'

It says that there are "some" sports that "may" need to be played in single-sex groups from a certain age. Frankly though, I can't think of any school sports that shouldn't be single-sex activities.

Apart from these sort of 'maybe' sports, the new guidance says that schools will need to consider any boys requesting to play in girls sports in light of the advice on "considering requests for support with social transition"

This is from paras 96 and 97 of the draft proposed changes:

96 Some sports may need to be played in single-sex groups from a certain age to ensure children’s safety, and where this is the case there should be no exceptions. In other cases, schools or colleges may have adopted a policy of single-sex sports for reasons related to fairness.

97 Where there are no safety concerns and a child makes a request relating to
how they participate, schools and colleges will need to consider the request in light of the advice on “considering requests for support with social transition”. This means that the school or college would need to take into account all the relevant factors, including whether supporting social transition is overall in the best interests of the child, as well as considering the impact on other children and the aim of creating safe and fair environments for children to participate in PE.

Frankly, the whole thing about even considering "supporting social transition" is entirely wrong, I feel.

Link to the proposed revisions:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/independent-education-and-school-safeguarding-division/keeping-children-safe-in-education-2026-revisions/supporting_documents/keeping_children_safe_in_education_2026_draft_for_consultationpdf-1

.

SEENinSport has suggested the following:

The survey has 41 questions but Q35 is the key one for sport

If you only have a couple of minutes, you can press return for each question till you reach Q35

They also have a link to suggested answers here:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/67fa41451fd5090aa3fb410b/t/69ceb2a41c966b1fc3a00b94/1775153828864/KCSIE+SEEN+in+Sport+response+Feb+2026+%286%29.pdf

and their website page on the issue is here:

https://www.seeninsport.org/consultation-on-kcsie-2026

The consultation is open until 22nd April and if you wish to contribute your thoughts on any of the questions then the government consultation form is here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/independent-education-and-school-safeguarding-division/keeping-children-safe-in-education-2026-revisions/consultation/intro/

https://consult.education.gov.uk/independent-education-and-school-safeguarding-division/keeping-children-safe-in-education-2026-revisions/supporting_documents/keeping_children_safe_in_education_2026_draft_for_consultationpdf-1

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SternJoyousBeev2 · 07/04/2026 11:04

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 06/04/2026 13:18

GIrls need to matter enough to have their own sports and events as a sex class, without everything they're allowed being predicated on whether or not it suits the special needs of boys. The message in this is that it is right and normal that some boys will be in single sex spaces and that nice, normal girls submit to this without questioning it.

This has been destruction tested over the past decade. It is what led to the SCJ being reaffirmed. It has led to distressed teenaged girls being required to undress in the presence of a teenaged boy, based on this nice, doesn't really matter, no one (who matters) minds, it's fine attitude.

It's not fine. Girls are not resources for boys. Girls are not less important. Girls are enough by themselves. To be 'kind' to those boys, you have to trample on the girls while convincing the girls that lovely girls and women like being trampled. Bigger picture involved here. Ten years of history in this. Case by case does not work for girls and women, even if some individual women shrug and say they're all right Jack. It's a shame that the vulnerable populations of the girls involved never get a thought or mention, but doesn't that just say it all?

And this is yet more of this underhand, appalling government trying to sneak back to case by case meaning boy/man by boy/man. And we all know from experience: case by case means self ID. It means all of them, any boy or man who wants, regardless of suitability because one means all, you cannot distinguish between them. It means girls as a sex class always being subordinated to the inner life of a boy, with the message that they're misbehaving or wrong to protest or resist this (if not actual consequences for 'not being kind' which is a very new and interesting term for female obedience to men). And it means the end of single sex spaces, just with a lot of frantic and stupid lying involved.

💯

You have articulated my thoughts on ‘case by case’ so much better than I ever could.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 07/04/2026 11:08

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 06/04/2026 13:22

It's not fair to boys to pretend that boys can be girls.

Many will desist. And they will in society have to realise that no, they cannot be girls or women in every situation. That 'no' has to happen somewhere. The longer the wangling is allowed, the harder and more distressing that 'no' will become. And more than that; those boys' respect for women and girls matters. We get told constantly how much 'respect' everyone must show to these boys without it ever being reciprocal; and then we wonder why VAWG and misogyny is off the charts.

Edited
Robin Hood Thank You GIF

And again you have expressed my thoughts on this much more concisely.

MarieDeGournay · 07/04/2026 11:08

I always try to look at issues like this from the point of view of the principle rather than anecdotally - so yes, a poster enjoyed playing basketball with boys, and yes, Katie Taylor used to register for matches as 'K.T.' Taylor because women's boxing wasn't the thing it is now, and yes, girls sometimes play cricket with boys - yes, all that happens.

But one of the distinctive features of all sports is that they have rules.
Don't handle the ball. Don't hit below the belt. Don't throw the ball forwards. Don't take more than 4 steps with the sliotar in your hand. Don't enter the attacking zone before the puck does.
Rules rules rules! But that's what sportspeople sign up for.

Learning to accept and abide by rules, and take the consequences if you don't, is part of what children learn by taking part in sport. That's the principle that is at stake here.

A boy who wants to play on a girls' team has to learn that if you want to play a sport, you have to adhere to its rules.
One of them is eligibility. Boys are not eligible to play in women's sports - they are welcome to play lots of others that they are eligible for, just not this one.
That's the rules. That's sport.

There are important lessons there, about sport, about life, about respect, and about boundaries. And about accepting that sometimes you will be told, politely but firmly, 'No'.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 07/04/2026 11:43

AStonedRose · 06/04/2026 17:45

Comparing trans kids to Isla Bryson - which the poster is obviously doing - is hateful and repellent.

It's possible to debate the issues without stopping to mocking children.

Are you seriously defending that?

Edited

The comparison was, as you very well know, not an insinuation that all transgirls are rapists. The post was illustrating exactly why it’s always a young child that is used by the #bekind-ers rather than post puberty teenagers. Knotty was comparing the obvious difference between the 7 year old transgirl and the 15 year old. And the pink leggings is a fairly famous image which illustrates Knotty’s point without having to use overly graphic or lengthy prose.

And like it or not, Isla Bryson is a transwoman and we are regularly reminded by the high profile middle aged transwomen that they were all once trans children. That they were never confused and that they always knew who they were. So Isla was also once a transchild.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 07/04/2026 14:10

Womblingmerrily · 06/04/2026 12:19

Okay - so the draft policy (copied above) is the proposed change??

It looks okay to me - Single sex exemption for sport noted for both safety and also for fairness.

Only in cases where there are no safety concerns and the social transition has been considered (rather than instantly accepted) could this be considered - and then only when it has been balanced against fairness to others.

So from this I would take it that it would be quite hard for a child to access single sex sports if not that sex. There are several safeguards - refusal on grounds of safety, refusal on grounds of fairness, refusal on consideration that it is detrimental to the larger group/ their access to PE (so perhaps related to those with other competing beliefs)

I may well be missing something - but this seems to be an improvement to the 'welcome to all who want to access wrong sex sports'

You are missing the fact that no boy is factually closer to being a girl than any other boy.

There's no meaningful basis on which to say "we'll split sports between boys and girls, except for this boy who will play with the girls".

Either there is a good reason to split that sport/activity by sex, in which case that underlying reason applies to all kids, or there isn't a good reason in which case it shouldn't be split in the first place.

Kiminki · 07/04/2026 14:23

Girls are not resources for boys.

This!!

Thelnebriati · 07/04/2026 15:37

Womblingmerrily The current default is for single sex sports and facilities. Thats what they are trying to change, this is one step in a process.

Single sex services and facilities shouldn't need defending at all. If they currently exist they are lawful.

GallantKumquat · 07/04/2026 18:36

FlirtsWithRhinos · 07/04/2026 14:10

You are missing the fact that no boy is factually closer to being a girl than any other boy.

There's no meaningful basis on which to say "we'll split sports between boys and girls, except for this boy who will play with the girls".

Either there is a good reason to split that sport/activity by sex, in which case that underlying reason applies to all kids, or there isn't a good reason in which case it shouldn't be split in the first place.

There's no meaningful basis on which to say "we'll split sports between boys and girls, except for this boy who will play with the girls".

This is the point to remember.

There are a number of ways to think about single sex services and spaces, but, legally, single sex services and spaces are not a state of nature they are exceptions to the EA 2010 that makes sex discrimination against either sex unlawful. The range of valid reasons for justifying exceptions (i.e. for establishing single sex services or spaces) is broad: privacy, modesty, physical safety, fairness, a need to exclude boys to develop leadership in girls, safe-guarding, etc., but there must be one, and accepting males into those services legally violates it by definition. This is what the Supreme Court was clear on.

The draft provisions seem to try to take us to pre-FWS days when some thought that you could simultaneously justify a single sex service or space and justify making an exception for trans individuals of the opposite sex. This is explicitly not allowed per FWS.

It is possibly allowed to suddenly turn a single sex sporting activity into a unisex activity that allows all boys (but even then the question must be asked why is it now suddenly OK to accept boys but it was in the previous years), but this is not what the provision is trying to do; it's trying to accept some boys and not others.

BonfireLady · 07/04/2026 20:46

GlovedhandsCecilia · 07/04/2026 09:20

I think PE is a place where boys ignore girls. It's different when you are all at a training session for a sport you all want to be at. In my experience, anyway.

Ignore and/or injure. Where ignoring generally means passing around them (to other boys) or similar in team sports. I would agree that they are more likely to include girls if they have specifically chosen to play on a mixed-sex team.

The KCSIE guidance is about safeguarding. In school PE lessons, protection from injury is a key part of this. Sometimes (and in line with the single-sex exemption in the Equality Act), this will mean keeping boys' and girls' lessons separate.

Equally, sometimes there are more reasons than safety to keep some PE lessons single-sex e.g. (borrowed from Gallant's post above) fairness or a need to exclude boys to develop leadership in girls. This is covered separately in the non-statutory "gender separation in mixed schools" guidance. That also talks about safety.

onepostwonder · 08/04/2026 05:25

SternJoyousBeev2

They can view themselves however they want to but they cannot impose their preferred identity onto others.

Are you speaking of a child here?

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:14

BonfireLady · 07/04/2026 20:46

Ignore and/or injure. Where ignoring generally means passing around them (to other boys) or similar in team sports. I would agree that they are more likely to include girls if they have specifically chosen to play on a mixed-sex team.

The KCSIE guidance is about safeguarding. In school PE lessons, protection from injury is a key part of this. Sometimes (and in line with the single-sex exemption in the Equality Act), this will mean keeping boys' and girls' lessons separate.

Equally, sometimes there are more reasons than safety to keep some PE lessons single-sex e.g. (borrowed from Gallant's post above) fairness or a need to exclude boys to develop leadership in girls. This is covered separately in the non-statutory "gender separation in mixed schools" guidance. That also talks about safety.

Never been injured from playing with boys. I think sometimes we have to remind girls that they arent fragile and won't break. That they can be strong and fast, too, and that isnt always the way you win, anyway.

Id hate if I was raised to believe that the boys were always going to be better than me and it would be dangerous for me to join in.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2026 07:23

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:14

Never been injured from playing with boys. I think sometimes we have to remind girls that they arent fragile and won't break. That they can be strong and fast, too, and that isnt always the way you win, anyway.

Id hate if I was raised to believe that the boys were always going to be better than me and it would be dangerous for me to join in.

You really really hate women and girls having things of their own and men and boys being told no don't you

and so what if you personally have never been injured playing with boys, I've been injured playing sport with boys and it was just a run around.

anyway, just a reminder of the difference between men and women when it comes to sport

Not again! - Government is proposing to allow trans-identifying boys into under 18s girls’ school sport - unless it is deemed unsafe
Not again! - Government is proposing to allow trans-identifying boys into under 18s girls’ school sport - unless it is deemed unsafe
GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:31

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2026 07:23

You really really hate women and girls having things of their own and men and boys being told no don't you

and so what if you personally have never been injured playing with boys, I've been injured playing sport with boys and it was just a run around.

anyway, just a reminder of the difference between men and women when it comes to sport

Edited

No i hate girls being treated like fragile little things that the boys will always hurt. I haven't been raised to think of myself as so weak and powerless.

Sure we should have single sex leagues for many sports. But playing with the boys isn't going to kill girls. It might even improve their relationships with their other sexed peers.

It all seems very old fashioned and Enid Blyton. I'm glad I wasnt raised with the belief that I will always be weaker and slower than every single man.

I do think Black women are raised to know their strength though, physically and mentally.

MyAmpleSheep · 08/04/2026 07:45

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:31

No i hate girls being treated like fragile little things that the boys will always hurt. I haven't been raised to think of myself as so weak and powerless.

Sure we should have single sex leagues for many sports. But playing with the boys isn't going to kill girls. It might even improve their relationships with their other sexed peers.

It all seems very old fashioned and Enid Blyton. I'm glad I wasnt raised with the belief that I will always be weaker and slower than every single man.

I do think Black women are raised to know their strength though, physically and mentally.

I do think Black women are raised to know their strength though, physically and mentally.

Kaboom, after noting and rejecting the sex stereotyping, down from space lands the racial stereotyping to replace it. Oh well.

InfoSecInTheCity · 08/04/2026 07:47

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:31

No i hate girls being treated like fragile little things that the boys will always hurt. I haven't been raised to think of myself as so weak and powerless.

Sure we should have single sex leagues for many sports. But playing with the boys isn't going to kill girls. It might even improve their relationships with their other sexed peers.

It all seems very old fashioned and Enid Blyton. I'm glad I wasnt raised with the belief that I will always be weaker and slower than every single man.

I do think Black women are raised to know their strength though, physically and mentally.

But women are physically weaker and slower than men, there are a few small number of exceptions where elite athlete females will be stronger and faster than average men, or average women will be stronger and faster than elderly ill men but from around the age of 10 boys will be stronger and faster than girls.

This means that in the average PE class or school sports event if you have boys and girls racing in 100m the winner will be a boy, no safety issue because it’s not a contact sport but the girls have very very very little chance of ever winning the race so it’s unfair. The same for long jump, discus, javelins, high jump, shotput….

Pretending that there is no physical difference can be harmful physically and psychologically, physically because girls can be injured. Psychologically because we would be telling girls that the only reason they keep losing is that they aren’t trying hard enough or aren’t training long enough or just aren’t very good. From a safety aspect it is also important that girls know that in a physical confrontation with a boy they can’t rely on strength because they will be outclassed, in a dangerous situation they should be aiming for distance and getting away not on winning the fight. This is what is taught in self defence and the way that women are most likely to survive an attack.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:56

InfoSecInTheCity · 08/04/2026 07:47

But women are physically weaker and slower than men, there are a few small number of exceptions where elite athlete females will be stronger and faster than average men, or average women will be stronger and faster than elderly ill men but from around the age of 10 boys will be stronger and faster than girls.

This means that in the average PE class or school sports event if you have boys and girls racing in 100m the winner will be a boy, no safety issue because it’s not a contact sport but the girls have very very very little chance of ever winning the race so it’s unfair. The same for long jump, discus, javelins, high jump, shotput….

Pretending that there is no physical difference can be harmful physically and psychologically, physically because girls can be injured. Psychologically because we would be telling girls that the only reason they keep losing is that they aren’t trying hard enough or aren’t training long enough or just aren’t very good. From a safety aspect it is also important that girls know that in a physical confrontation with a boy they can’t rely on strength because they will be outclassed, in a dangerous situation they should be aiming for distance and getting away not on winning the fight. This is what is taught in self defence and the way that women are most likely to survive an attack.

I can beat a lot of men at basketball 1v1 because I have more skill and experience than them having been a basketball player for much of my life.

I think I can beat a lot of men up, too.

It isn't about pretending that there arent differences, it's about understanding that those differences are on a spectrum and you can develop things like speed and skill that will mean you can compete with men.

I think some of us have been raised to understand our power and potential as physical beings, and others have been raised to see themselves as pretty powerless and at the mercy of men. I am so glad I wasnt raised with that sense of inadequacy.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:57

MyAmpleSheep · 08/04/2026 07:45

I do think Black women are raised to know their strength though, physically and mentally.

Kaboom, after noting and rejecting the sex stereotyping, down from space lands the racial stereotyping to replace it. Oh well.

It's just an observation from my lived experience as a Black woman. We arent as intimidated by men and have more belief in ourselves, it seems.

Kiminki · 08/04/2026 08:01

Wow. I wake up to discover the thread had descended into racism .

Coatsoff42 · 08/04/2026 08:03

I wonder why no-one surveys girls to find out their opinions on it? It’s a lot of waffle based on our own experiences, but I think times have changed, with online bullying and the rise of phones and cameras and the manosphere etc. My understanding is that girls at school are increasingly sick of the attitudes and comments of boys, I would think that would make them less likely to want to make themselves vulnerable in front of boys ie in PE.

@GlovedhandsCecilia Do you think black girls don’t have the same issues with misogyny?

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 08:06

Coatsoff42 · 08/04/2026 08:03

I wonder why no-one surveys girls to find out their opinions on it? It’s a lot of waffle based on our own experiences, but I think times have changed, with online bullying and the rise of phones and cameras and the manosphere etc. My understanding is that girls at school are increasingly sick of the attitudes and comments of boys, I would think that would make them less likely to want to make themselves vulnerable in front of boys ie in PE.

@GlovedhandsCecilia Do you think black girls don’t have the same issues with misogyny?

I dont think black girls are as bothered by mixed sex sports overall. Maybe because we tend to be more athletic than our white counterparts and so we arent as scared to compete.

I know a lot of female basketball and football players and playing with boys, in leagues and recreationally, was normal and very much desired.

BonfireLady · 08/04/2026 08:06

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:14

Never been injured from playing with boys. I think sometimes we have to remind girls that they arent fragile and won't break. That they can be strong and fast, too, and that isnt always the way you win, anyway.

Id hate if I was raised to believe that the boys were always going to be better than me and it would be dangerous for me to join in.

Id hate if I was raised to believe that the boys were always going to be better than me and it would be dangerous for me to join in.

Damn right. Those women that Imane Khelif was punching in the boxing ring should have just moved faster out of the way. They should have trained harder to punch back harder. They shouldn't be held back by their smaller hearts, smaller lungs, lower muscle mass, less responsive fast-twitch muscles and more fragile skulls.

And those women who Caster Semenya beat on the athletic track should have also trained harder. Lung and heart differences, meh. The fact that they will never run as efficiently because of the angle of their thigh bone in their pelvis... pah.

Girls should be taught that physics and biology are sexist and that all they need to be just as good as the boys is belief and hard graft.

Perhaps we should also encourage the Paralympians to compete in the Olympics? Based on this logic, it does feel a bit unfair to rob them of the opportunity to demonstrate that they are just the same.

Edited for clarity: ⬆️ this is sarcasm.

That they can be strong and fast, too, and that isnt always the way you win, anyway.

This is true. In women's tennis it's all about the rallies, not the aces. In women's football, it's much more about the shorter passing sequences, not hoofing it as far as possible. But the thing that makes this work is that the women get to compete in their own categories. They get to learn the techniques that work best for their skillset. Mixed-sex tennis would be unfair, mixed-sex football (from puberty) would be dangerous as well as unfair. Mixed-sex basketball could be fair and safe as long as it's managed well. Equally, it could be very much the opposite.

Edited for clarity: ⬆️ this is not sarcasm.

Kiminki · 08/04/2026 08:08

Surveys depend so much on the exact questions asked. And remember so many of these girls are being indoctrinated into genderideology by schools, often by activist teachers or teachers who have themselves been indoctrinated at university with courses in queer theory as part of their teaching degrees.

And, once again, children are not responsible for their own safeguarding.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 08:10

BonfireLady · 08/04/2026 08:06

Id hate if I was raised to believe that the boys were always going to be better than me and it would be dangerous for me to join in.

Damn right. Those women that Imane Khelif was punching in the boxing ring should have just moved faster out of the way. They should have trained harder to punch back harder. They shouldn't be held back by their smaller hearts, smaller lungs, lower muscle mass, less responsive fast-twitch muscles and more fragile skulls.

And those women who Caster Semenya beat on the athletic track should have also trained harder. Lung and heart differences, meh. The fact that they will never run as efficiently because of the angle of their thigh bone in their pelvis... pah.

Girls should be taught that physics and biology are sexist and that all they need to be just as good as the boys is belief and hard graft.

Perhaps we should also encourage the Paralympians to compete in the Olympics? Based on this logic, it does feel a bit unfair to rob them of the opportunity to demonstrate that they are just the same.

Edited for clarity: ⬆️ this is sarcasm.

That they can be strong and fast, too, and that isnt always the way you win, anyway.

This is true. In women's tennis it's all about the rallies, not the aces. In women's football, it's much more about the shorter passing sequences, not hoofing it as far as possible. But the thing that makes this work is that the women get to compete in their own categories. They get to learn the techniques that work best for their skillset. Mixed-sex tennis would be unfair, mixed-sex football (from puberty) would be dangerous as well as unfair. Mixed-sex basketball could be fair and safe as long as it's managed well. Equally, it could be very much the opposite.

Edited for clarity: ⬆️ this is not sarcasm.

Edited

The boxer isnt a trans woman, and the other thing is that women have beat that boxer before.

MyAmpleSheep · 08/04/2026 08:11

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 07:57

It's just an observation from my lived experience as a Black woman. We arent as intimidated by men and have more belief in ourselves, it seems.

Stereotypes are always based on a kernel of fact or history, or they wouldn’t stick. It doesn’t mitigate the harm they do.

Does this discussion incorrectly teach girls they are weaker than boys? Maybe, and maybe a bit too much, so you’re wise to raise the issue. It’s true that any particular girl can soundly beat a whole cohort of boys. But on average the boys any girl can beat will be younger than she is (except possible for a short duration during her puberty). These differences are recognized in law, and don’t go away if we don’t see them.

Introducing race is, for obvious reasons, uncomfortable at best.

Kiminki · 08/04/2026 08:13

GlovedhandsCecilia · 08/04/2026 08:10

The boxer isnt a trans woman, and the other thing is that women have beat that boxer before.

and?

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